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welcome to tales from the rabbit hole my

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guest today is a repeat guest

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Stian Arneson who I believe was on

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episodes two and three or three and four

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we have very long conversation right

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back in the early days of the podcast

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where we talked mostly about 9/11 and

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some other things like crop circles and

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whatnot and I said stay in a copy of my

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book and he's been perusing it and he

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has a few notes and a few questions for

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me so we're gonna talk about that and

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maybe a little bit more about some of

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the other topics like 9/11 and whatnot

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dusty and welcome to tales from the

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rabbit hole thank you thank you good

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it'd be good to be back yeah it's good

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to see you again oh yeah I don't know

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where to start from

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but I got one question I really want to

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shoot off if that's okay go for it um

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you I gotta ask how would you define the

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term debunked what do you put into that

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what does that mean that something has

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been debunked well it means that one

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explanation for an event has been shown

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to be wrong so someone says I was

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abducted with aliens last night and you

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show the camera footage that share that

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they were just having a nightmare they

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were laying in the bed thrashing around

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that would be evidence that their claim

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was wrong or their claim about what

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happened that night was wrong instead of

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them being abducted they you know they

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are having a nightmare and you can prove

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this to them by showing them the video

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yes it's like debunking an explanation

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as or something a lot of people I think

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they get like when I say something's

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been debunked they think I mean the

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entire topic so now it's like say

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chemtrails like that I wouldn't say I've

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debunked chemtrails because that's kind

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of an impossible thing to do but you can

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debunk individual claims like if someone

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says contrails never persisted you can

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show them evidence that contrails did

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persist and then you could say that

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claim has been debunked that one small

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thing has been debunked so it's showing

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like individual things to be wrong

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essentially right right is it but is it

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possible that the term the bunk can be

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overly used in a way in regards to maybe

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that what is actually happening is

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you in some cases are presenting

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alternative theories to explain a

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phenomenon but that it is in fact maybe

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not debunked in some cases but that it

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is because I've seen through the book

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that you when you use the term in in

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many occasions I find it completely

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objectively correct to use the term

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debunked like just example you gave that

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you can you can give such a radical

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different explanation but very heavy

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weighing evidence which is like for

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example filming this individual having

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an alien abduction but when you're

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talking about for example a collapse of

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the clean towers

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then you're presenting a what I would

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consider to be an alternative

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explanation and maybe not debunked I

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would consider that a an ultimate kind

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of term to use almost like a paryanthaam

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in regards to the subject in and of

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itself because none of us have are there

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physically none of us have been there

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none of us are able to go in today and

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see what was really going on so all were

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left with his pieces and a puzzle and I

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think your theories are parts of a

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pieces of that puzzle that can maybe fit

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into explaining what we're actually

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seeing well I don't think it's been

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debunked if you know what yeah it's no I

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I think I think I know what you mean

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like I know obviously that the title of

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my book escaping the rabbit hole is how

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to debunk conspiracy theories using

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facts logic and respect now I can see

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out on that that's that subtitle seems

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like it's an overarching thing like I've

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debunked 9/11 or I've debunked this or

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that right debunked the controlled

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demolition theory of 9/11 when you know

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really I haven't I'm gonna pretend about

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it well and what I've done really is

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just examine the various claims of

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evidence behind the conspiracy theory

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and where possible I've shown that these

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these claims of evidence don't hold up

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or I provided an alternative explanation

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free I'd take for example the claim

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that's these little

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red and gray flakes that people are

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found in the dust of World Trade Center

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the book Trade Center site people claim

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that these these these things are

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exploding absolutely so kind of yet some

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kind of evidence of permitting material

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they they say it's not actually

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explosives it's just something that when

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you heat it up it catches fire and it

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burns and they describe it as being

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Fermi tick and they say this is evidence

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because there's so much of it that it is

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you know there are explosives and have I

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don't that and you not really know I

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mean I've put forward an alternative

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hypothesis that it's paint you know and

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I offer as evidence the fact that when I

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hit my my wheelbarrow with a hammer

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identical-looking flakes like fell off

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my wheelbarrow have a red painted

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wheelbarrow is the exact same color as

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the steel in the World Trade Center

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I haven't debunked that theory there's

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an alternative explanation and I pointed

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out kind of the where the evidence is

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lacking for one theory but yeah I

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wouldn't say I approved a hundred

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percent that every single red and gray

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flake in the dust is actually paint

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obviously some of them are going to be

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paint because they have the same paint

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on the steel as they have on my

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wheelbarrow and when you knock it off

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you will get these these paint things so

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yeah I see I do see your problems with

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using the term debunked and you know to

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be honest I'm kind of shying away from

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it a bit nowadays simply because I can't

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people do react against it so I I do

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things like I will title things with a

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question like here's this really this

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yeah

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like for example and then examine the

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evidence so yeah it's a problem you talk

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a lot about a group psychology in the

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book and it's been it's brought up many

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times and I enjoy that quite a bit but I

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also see that in in in the group mind of

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skeptics or so-called debunk news they

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they cling on to what you say and they

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bring it forth in discussions and

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debates and they use the term well this

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has been debunked just check here make

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West blah blah blah this and this so you

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get this groupthink within your own and

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by

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I feel people they do look up to your

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analysis and ways of explanations and

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and they take the same kind of

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uncritical path I feel to do kind of

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where they take their explanations and

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feel like ok it's just been explained

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away now I can go back to my everyday

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routine and you know everything's fine

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it's not it's not you know it's not what

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I used to think it was and I find that

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to be part of the same phenomenon that

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you see within these conspiratorial

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groups as well that they they find

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allies of how they want to view the

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world and when they do that they become

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uncritical you become part of a group

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think

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do you see that in a way I do actually

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yeah and actually funny you should

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mention this topic because it came up

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recently someone D and me on Twitter and

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they pointed to the French Wikipedia

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page for these the the UFO the nimitz

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UFO thing where in these these videos of

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UFOs have been released like like like a

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year or so ago and people say it's like

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real evidence of UFOs so one on the

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french wikipedia page posted a link to

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my site on in the article and said meta

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bank has done an analysis of these

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videos and shown them to be a hoax

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which isn't what i did i didn't show

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them to be a hoax

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I presented alternative explanations for

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what they'd be like you know it's

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probably not a UFO is probably a distal

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plane or this other video it's a balloon

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I didn't say any of them were a hoax

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mm-hmm and then then there's some kind

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of edit war going on apparently on the

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French Wikipedia page and of course it's

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in French yeah yeah and it's about about

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me anyway so I can't really edit it but

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people have taken what I've said and

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they've kind of misconstrued it as being

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you know 100% evidence for their point

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of view so these people obviously UFO

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skeptics and they go that's a hoax like

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Nick West or Medibank is proved it with

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his videos which which I'll show you in

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my video is how titles like is the

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nimitz UFO a plane not like exactly fo

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nimitz is video is a hoax

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so yeah grass bones or the other

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explanation

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yeah it's it's so similar to what

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someone would say that went on YouTube

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and just saw a video that oh I saw this

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video explaining and proving that 9/11

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was an inside job I mean it's you've got

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hundreds of scientists saying it is it's

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its side of human mentality that it

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creates teams and when you talk about

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polarization I see that your followers

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quote/unquote take part in that same

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game where they pick a team and they

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take part in that skepticism team and

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when when that happens they you get this

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opposition and you get this very what

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would you say intense and not practical

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debate on the Internet because you get

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these two sides that have kind of their

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idols like you become in a way to these

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people because I see more and more

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quoting you just like you mentioned and

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I'm wondering if your readers of your

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debunks are not critical towards you as

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well or your theories then then it

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becomes a team issue I feel for example

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you you say that you you write in your

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book that I bother ID bunk to stave off

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and spare others from this harm of

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getting into the rabbit hole

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uncritically of conspiracy theories

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quote while it is perhaps just a drop in

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the ocean to make the world a better

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place but I think that in that process

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of trying to make the world a better

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place the solutions that we come up with

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have unimaginable consequences as to how

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people perceive your ways of

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interpreting and projecting new theories

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they it becomes the palette Aryan in a

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way comes a hundred percent they feel it

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seems well yeah that's obviously not my

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intent

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but I think it's inevitable that you're

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gonna get a range of interpretations of

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things and you know most people don't

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spend very much time on these topics

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like you and I were very interested in

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these topics near strange esoteric

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topics like 9/11 and like like UFOs even

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and so we personally have spent many

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many hours and days you know years

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reading about them

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very familiar with them most people are

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00:11:16,119 --> 00:11:13,459
not and they just have a passing

272
00:11:17,919 --> 00:11:16,129
acquaintance with with the topic and

273
00:11:20,379 --> 00:11:17,929
they already have a preformed opinion

274
00:11:22,389 --> 00:11:20,389
one way or the other about what what the

275
00:11:23,769 --> 00:11:22,399
reality is they think yeah the UFO it's

276
00:11:25,449 --> 00:11:23,779
a silly nonsense or do you think oh

277
00:11:27,339 --> 00:11:25,459
there's probably aliens out there or

278
00:11:28,689 --> 00:11:27,349
they think oh yeah yeah aliens are

279
00:11:31,359 --> 00:11:28,699
definitely visiting us because I've seen

280
00:11:32,889 --> 00:11:31,369
it on on the History Channel and yeah

281
00:11:34,299 --> 00:11:32,899
they have these you know simplistic

282
00:11:35,859 --> 00:11:34,309
interpretations but they're not really

283
00:11:39,009 --> 00:11:35,869
familiar with the real depth of the

284
00:11:40,359 --> 00:11:39,019
evidence and so they won't tend to when

285
00:11:43,059 --> 00:11:40,369
they get in into an argument with

286
00:11:46,799 --> 00:11:43,069
somebody they will they will gravitate

287
00:11:49,509 --> 00:11:46,809
to someone else who gives an explanation

288
00:11:51,669 --> 00:11:49,519
so they will say like you know look at

289
00:11:53,619 --> 00:11:51,679
architects and engineers for 9/11 truth

290
00:11:54,609 --> 00:11:53,629
they've they've explained it all you

291
00:11:56,499 --> 00:11:54,619
know I haven't read any of their

292
00:11:58,059 --> 00:11:56,509
explanations but I know that there's

293
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:58,069
lots of them and they've explained or

294
00:12:01,899 --> 00:11:59,839
you know look at Mickey West he's got

295
00:12:05,349 --> 00:12:01,909
like you know 15 videos explaining why

296
00:12:07,359 --> 00:12:05,359
those UFOs or just plain some things so

297
00:12:09,809 --> 00:12:07,369
you know that's just who I'm gonna go

298
00:12:13,359 --> 00:12:09,819
with I think the people who actually

299
00:12:16,059 --> 00:12:13,369
look into it in into more depth realize

300
00:12:18,159 --> 00:12:16,069
that you don't get absolute answers on

301
00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:18,169
one side or the other mm-hmm but there's

302
00:12:22,749 --> 00:12:20,569
certainly a danger for people who are

303
00:12:24,309 --> 00:12:22,759
just kind of have a passing acquaintance

304
00:12:26,219 --> 00:12:24,319
with the theory and who just want to

305
00:12:28,479 --> 00:12:26,229
like slap somebody down on on Twitter

306
00:12:30,849 --> 00:12:28,489
they're gonna just grab something and

307
00:12:33,699 --> 00:12:30,859
then sailing a look at this video but

308
00:12:35,619 --> 00:12:33,709
yeah I don't really see the totalitarian

309
00:12:37,779 --> 00:12:35,629
aspects of it that you're saying because

310
00:12:39,969 --> 00:12:37,789
it's it's not like my I have this horde

311
00:12:42,489 --> 00:12:39,979
of followers who are all you know ditto

312
00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:42,499
heads like they say for followers of run

313
00:12:46,779 --> 00:12:45,409
by a detailee so if they say the same I

314
00:12:47,919 --> 00:12:46,789
agree with whatever this person says

315
00:12:49,479 --> 00:12:47,929
that you know I don't get that i

316
00:12:52,029 --> 00:12:49,489
actually get because i cover lots of

317
00:12:54,339 --> 00:12:52,039
different topics i get some people who

318
00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:54,349
believe me strongly on one topic and

319
00:12:58,779 --> 00:12:55,970
then think I'm a complete idiot

320
00:13:01,779 --> 00:12:58,789
on another topic yeah give this the UFO

321
00:13:04,299 --> 00:13:01,789
people are generally on board with my

322
00:13:05,739 --> 00:13:04,309
chemtrail and 9/11 debunking but they

323
00:13:08,079 --> 00:13:05,749
think I'm a complete idiot for not

324
00:13:10,299 --> 00:13:08,089
believing in UFOs and conversely a lot

325
00:13:12,999 --> 00:13:10,309
of the 9/11 people are not UFO people

326
00:13:14,949 --> 00:13:13,009
and they think that UFOs are just like

327
00:13:17,949 --> 00:13:14,959
silly nonsense that distracts from the

328
00:13:19,869 --> 00:13:17,959
serious issue of 9/11 so I don't have

329
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:19,879
this monolithic following who believes

330
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:21,450
everything that I say no

331
00:13:25,460 --> 00:13:22,890
I don't think you have either it's just

332
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:25,470
I don't know an attitude from those

333
00:13:30,130 --> 00:13:27,690
different groupings that do support some

334
00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:30,140
of your theories that become

335
00:13:35,330 --> 00:13:32,730
totalitarian when they tried to convey

336
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:35,340
their message as in totalitarian in a

337
00:13:41,210 --> 00:13:37,890
way of as if you had the ultimate

338
00:13:45,980 --> 00:13:41,220
explanation of this just one theory or

339
00:13:49,670 --> 00:13:45,990
this theory or you talked about how the

340
00:13:51,740 --> 00:13:49,680
term conspiracy theorist is according to

341
00:13:54,140 --> 00:13:51,750
a scientist that I completely forgot the

342
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:54,150
name of now in your book that he thinks

343
00:14:00,470 --> 00:13:57,360
that the perm conspiracy theorist is is

344
00:14:04,330 --> 00:14:00,480
neutral in its rhetoric term it's it's

345
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:04,340
not belittling anyone it's not it's not

346
00:14:10,820 --> 00:14:06,570
thinking of someone as stupid or

347
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:10,830
anything in that way but it has by I

348
00:14:21,260 --> 00:14:16,710
think culture and by people and media

349
00:14:23,390 --> 00:14:21,270
and and and this sceptics and even by

350
00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:23,400
some governments that the term

351
00:14:31,550 --> 00:14:25,170
conspiracy theorist have has been

352
00:14:34,460 --> 00:14:31,560
twisted into this taboo case stamp on

353
00:14:36,830 --> 00:14:34,470
people who are associated with that term

354
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:36,840
conspiracy theorists and and I have a

355
00:14:40,550 --> 00:14:38,880
compassion for those people in a way

356
00:14:44,780 --> 00:14:40,560
where they are trying to communicate

357
00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:44,790
real conspiracies like for example we

358
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:46,350
talked about this last time as well but

359
00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:48,930
now with Julian Assange a situation in

360
00:14:55,180 --> 00:14:52,230
the UK and the rape case being dropped

361
00:14:57,830 --> 00:14:55,190
and how this case has developed what

362
00:14:59,270 --> 00:14:57,840
information has come out that emails

363
00:15:02,120 --> 00:14:59,280
were deleted from the Justice Department

364
00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:02,130
in in the UK as to how what

365
00:15:06,860 --> 00:15:04,290
communication and they had with the UK

366
00:15:09,020 --> 00:15:06,870
government and how they were pushing

367
00:15:10,580 --> 00:15:09,030
Swedish authorities to pursue this rape

368
00:15:12,590 --> 00:15:10,590
case and so on and so on real

369
00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:12,600
conspiracies but if you bring these

370
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:15,930
issues up in certain media channels and

371
00:15:21,050 --> 00:15:18,450
so in political arenas you are stamping

372
00:15:23,990 --> 00:15:21,060
conspiracy theorists and I think that

373
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:24,000
there is a real danger in that stamp

374
00:15:30,830 --> 00:15:26,250
because it did not bringing up real

375
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:30,840
debate actually rose yeah it's a label

376
00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:33,330
and I know and I did discuss this in the

377
00:15:35,929 --> 00:15:34,050
book

378
00:15:38,329 --> 00:15:35,939
I mean that what it boils down to is is

379
00:15:40,489 --> 00:15:38,339
what term are you going to use instead

380
00:15:43,970 --> 00:15:40,499
or are you going to use no term and and

381
00:15:46,729 --> 00:15:43,980
not try to classify people who believe

382
00:15:49,309 --> 00:15:46,739
in 9/11 and chemtrails or secret

383
00:15:51,319 --> 00:15:49,319
government plots and things like that do

384
00:15:54,350 --> 00:15:51,329
we just simply not have a term that

385
00:15:56,210 --> 00:15:54,360
encompasses them you know 9/11 truth

386
00:15:57,499 --> 00:15:56,220
people call themselves

387
00:16:03,439 --> 00:15:57,509
I don't know that call themself truth

388
00:16:06,579 --> 00:16:03,449
activists ruthless truthers but some

389
00:16:10,519 --> 00:16:06,589
people think that truthers is is

390
00:16:12,769 --> 00:16:10,529
acquired a derogatory term as well yeah

391
00:16:15,530 --> 00:16:12,779
I've heard that from people who are in

392
00:16:17,179 --> 00:16:15,540
9/11 truthers and then they say well

393
00:16:19,249 --> 00:16:17,189
don't call me a truther because that's

394
00:16:21,079 --> 00:16:19,259
just like what they call the crazy

395
00:16:22,989 --> 00:16:21,089
people like they say that the people who

396
00:16:26,479 --> 00:16:22,999
believe the towers were evaporated are

397
00:16:27,919 --> 00:16:26,489
truthers and so my association it gets

398
00:16:29,809 --> 00:16:27,929
this stigma and that's kind of what

399
00:16:31,669 --> 00:16:29,819
happened with conspiracy theorists is

400
00:16:34,609 --> 00:16:31,679
that because it encompasses the entire

401
00:16:37,090 --> 00:16:34,619
spectrum of conspiracy theories like

402
00:16:40,699 --> 00:16:37,100
everything up to you know the Flat Earth

403
00:16:42,410 --> 00:16:40,709
it taints everything below that and I

404
00:16:44,569 --> 00:16:42,420
know this for everybody who is a

405
00:16:46,429 --> 00:16:44,579
conspiracy theorist without you know any

406
00:16:47,419 --> 00:16:46,439
stigma attached to that term someone who

407
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,429
believes in some kind of conspiracy

408
00:16:49,879 --> 00:16:48,839
because there are real conspiracies

409
00:16:51,949 --> 00:16:49,889
obviously there's lots of real

410
00:16:53,389 --> 00:16:51,959
conspiracies lots of corruption in the

411
00:16:56,119 --> 00:16:53,399
government there's lots of you know

412
00:16:57,499 --> 00:16:56,129
people self-dealing I see it all the

413
00:17:00,169 --> 00:16:57,509
time there's very for struck for stating

414
00:17:03,019 --> 00:17:00,179
frustrating for them yeah that they they

415
00:17:04,879 --> 00:17:03,029
they get labeled as something which they

416
00:17:08,029 --> 00:17:04,889
don't feel that they are they feel that

417
00:17:10,159 --> 00:17:08,039
they are very genuine concerned yeah you

418
00:17:11,689 --> 00:17:10,169
know again it's a term that's reasonably

419
00:17:13,309 --> 00:17:11,699
well understood as to what we're talking

420
00:17:15,379 --> 00:17:13,319
about there's people who are saying

421
00:17:17,510 --> 00:17:15,389
there's a big conspiracy at the upper

422
00:17:20,329 --> 00:17:17,520
levels of government that explains these

423
00:17:22,730 --> 00:17:20,339
events yeah and how else are we going to

424
00:17:25,750 --> 00:17:22,740
refer to these types of theories in

425
00:17:28,850 --> 00:17:25,760
general other than busy theories like

426
00:17:30,860 --> 00:17:28,860
government theories or power theories or

427
00:17:32,990 --> 00:17:30,870
you know you just come up with some new

428
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:33,000
term and like I say in the book you come

429
00:17:38,090 --> 00:17:35,730
up with a new term to explain it and

430
00:17:40,279 --> 00:17:38,100
then that's a like truther acquires some

431
00:17:42,529 --> 00:17:40,289
kind of stigma because you know it's

432
00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:42,539
only go somewhere that's a bit a bit

433
00:17:45,580 --> 00:17:42,990
extreme

434
00:17:47,930 --> 00:17:45,590
it's like inevitable in a way that you

435
00:17:51,710 --> 00:17:47,940
yeah whatever term you come up with

436
00:17:54,169 --> 00:17:51,720
you can always find it I'll get Cory but

437
00:17:56,509 --> 00:17:54,179
but but the the conspiracy theorist term

438
00:18:00,019 --> 00:17:56,519
in you said that it's a well-established

439
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:00,029
and understood term but if I go on the

440
00:18:04,549 --> 00:18:02,490
street or if I go out and have a beer

441
00:18:06,470 --> 00:18:04,559
with random people and I ask them what

442
00:18:08,659 --> 00:18:06,480
do you what do you think of conspiracy

443
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:08,669
theorists is what do you associate with

444
00:18:13,610 --> 00:18:10,799
that and then they immediately think of

445
00:18:17,690 --> 00:18:13,620
maybe Flat Earth we didn't land on the

446
00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:17,700
moon they had this general idea given to

447
00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:20,250
them usually from my interpretation the

448
00:18:27,769 --> 00:18:24,330
media that is serving them the label in

449
00:18:30,019 --> 00:18:27,779
an uncritical way because if if I was to

450
00:18:32,590 --> 00:18:30,029
call myself a conspiracy theorist if I

451
00:18:36,289 --> 00:18:32,600
investigate government corruption then

452
00:18:38,779 --> 00:18:36,299
that can't even be associated with Flat

453
00:18:41,690 --> 00:18:38,789
Earth and and the moon landings being

454
00:18:44,389 --> 00:18:41,700
staged in my opinion so yeah I think

455
00:18:46,940 --> 00:18:44,399
it's a I don't think it is a well

456
00:18:50,570 --> 00:18:46,950
understood term I think it is a term

457
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:50,580
that has been manipulated and twisted

458
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:53,370
and by both natural and human causes and

459
00:19:00,080 --> 00:18:56,610
and maybe by even sinister causes to

460
00:19:04,310 --> 00:19:00,090
create perhaps confusion in in the land

461
00:19:07,340 --> 00:19:04,320
of labels so to speak do well yeah we're

462
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:07,350
possible I try to use a more precise

463
00:19:13,009 --> 00:19:09,450
term like if I'm talking about 9/11

464
00:19:15,799 --> 00:19:13,019
truth I will usually refer them to them

465
00:19:18,019 --> 00:19:15,809
as truthers if it's a more extreme

466
00:19:22,009 --> 00:19:18,029
conspiracy theory I will say things like

467
00:19:24,169 --> 00:19:22,019
a 9/11 conspiracy theorist and like and

468
00:19:26,810 --> 00:19:24,179
the controlled demolition theory I

469
00:19:29,749 --> 00:19:26,820
considered that to be here something

470
00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:29,759
that is from my perspective demonstrated

471
00:19:35,269 --> 00:19:33,090
to be completely baseless and I would

472
00:19:37,009 --> 00:19:35,279
describe that as a conspiracy theory

473
00:19:39,560 --> 00:19:37,019
without reservation and that I think

474
00:19:40,970 --> 00:19:39,570
that it is you know it's this extreme

475
00:19:42,590 --> 00:19:40,980
theory about the upper levels of

476
00:19:43,850 --> 00:19:42,600
government doing this incredible thing

477
00:19:47,509 --> 00:19:43,860
that was really really difficult to pull

478
00:19:49,249 --> 00:19:47,519
off and it's all covered up and the the

479
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:49,259
events of 9/11 all explained by this

480
00:19:54,110 --> 00:19:52,110
this convoluted conspiracy theory that

481
00:19:55,570 --> 00:19:54,120
involves pre planting explosives in the

482
00:19:57,889 --> 00:19:55,580
World Trade Center and having planes

483
00:19:59,749 --> 00:19:57,899
piloted by remote control flying into

484
00:20:00,840 --> 00:19:59,759
them at the right point having the the

485
00:20:02,340 --> 00:20:00,850
floors burned for

486
00:20:03,870 --> 00:20:02,350
an hour and then having the buildings

487
00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:03,880
collapse starting on the floors that

488
00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:08,200
were on liar weather plane hit and then

489
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:09,760
pretty much nobody in the engineering

490
00:20:14,850 --> 00:20:12,730
community noticing this the FBI

491
00:20:17,970 --> 00:20:14,860
pretending to investigate for two years

492
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:17,980
the cost of billions of dollars and not

493
00:20:22,470 --> 00:20:19,750
finding anything you know that I think

494
00:20:23,940 --> 00:20:22,480
is a conspiracy theory yeah prom-prom my

495
00:20:26,340 --> 00:20:23,950
perspective but obviously from the

496
00:20:28,110 --> 00:20:26,350
perspective of people who are convinced

497
00:20:30,060 --> 00:20:28,120
that that theory is true like say

498
00:20:31,410 --> 00:20:30,070
richard gage who was the head of

499
00:20:34,110 --> 00:20:31,420
architects and engineers for 9/11 truth

500
00:20:37,860 --> 00:20:34,120
mmm he's gonna say that i'm calling it a

501
00:20:40,290 --> 00:20:37,870
conspiracy theory to belittle it so you

502
00:20:42,510 --> 00:20:40,300
know took to label it with the same

503
00:20:43,890 --> 00:20:42,520
thing as like the queen is an alien or

504
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:43,900
the earth is flat and things like that

505
00:20:48,660 --> 00:20:46,050
so he's that's what he's gonna receive

506
00:20:49,950 --> 00:20:48,670
but as you know i've actually like spent

507
00:20:52,230 --> 00:20:49,960
a lot of time looking at the actual

508
00:20:54,210 --> 00:20:52,240
evidence behind this this theory and i

509
00:20:56,940 --> 00:20:54,220
feel like you know after looking at it

510
00:20:59,490 --> 00:20:56,950
for you know 10 years or so the my

511
00:21:02,460 --> 00:20:59,500
conclusion is that it is just a

512
00:21:04,890 --> 00:21:02,470
conspiracy theory means oh that's what

513
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:04,900
i'm gonna keep calling it but in regards

514
00:21:12,030 --> 00:21:07,890
to the explosive theory if you were to

515
00:21:14,370 --> 00:21:12,040
remove any any association with the idea

516
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:14,380
of governments high-level people being

517
00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:18,130
involved and that you just remove all of

518
00:21:23,330 --> 00:21:20,710
the foundations that it's currently

519
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,340
standing on and just think of the

520
00:21:29,550 --> 00:21:26,080
explosive theory regardless of who was

521
00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:29,560
behind it or involved or what whatever

522
00:21:38,940 --> 00:21:30,130
it

523
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:38,950
you've also talked about that yeah we

524
00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:40,570
don't understand everything about it but

525
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:42,220
that doesn't mean that it's a conspiracy

526
00:21:50,210 --> 00:21:46,770
theory and i agree but the the room of

527
00:21:52,860 --> 00:21:50,220
abnormalities in the collapse and the

528
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:52,870
visual aspect of the collapse which

529
00:21:58,760 --> 00:21:56,290
understandably can too many people be

530
00:22:02,850 --> 00:21:58,770
communicated as an explosive collapse

531
00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:02,860
how do you do you leave room for doubt

532
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:06,790
that it may be all of the theories

533
00:22:11,340 --> 00:22:09,130
presented today in regards to explosives

534
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:11,350
can be dismissed with an alternative

535
00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:14,410
theory but not may be debunked are you

536
00:22:19,220 --> 00:22:16,390
open or you have room for doubt that

537
00:22:21,780 --> 00:22:19,230
it's possible that it could have been

538
00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:21,790
sinister purposes behind it regardless

539
00:22:29,850 --> 00:22:25,570
of who was behind it other than 9 when I

540
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:29,860
get ya to a to a degree to a degree but

541
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,170
a small degree now I think you know you

542
00:22:36,360 --> 00:22:34,720
say like we don't really understand

543
00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:36,370
everything about the collapse and now I

544
00:22:39,270 --> 00:22:38,200
think that statement kind of should be

545
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:39,280
looked into a little bit because I

546
00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:42,090
wouldn't say that there are aspects of

547
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:45,520
the collapse that we don't understand in

548
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:47,050
the sense of like you know why could

549
00:22:50,850 --> 00:22:49,330
this possibly have happened we can come

550
00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:50,860
up with reasonable hypotheses for

551
00:22:55,860 --> 00:22:53,170
everything did you know this it fell

552
00:22:58,680 --> 00:22:55,870
rapidly there was a explosive ejections

553
00:23:00,090 --> 00:22:58,690
of material things things like that

554
00:23:02,940 --> 00:23:00,100
they're the things that people bring up

555
00:23:04,530 --> 00:23:02,950
as being being issues I'd say we didn't

556
00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:04,540
understand that in the sense that we

557
00:23:08,490 --> 00:23:06,370
don't know exactly which beam hit which

558
00:23:10,980 --> 00:23:08,500
other beam and you know you know which

559
00:23:13,220 --> 00:23:10,990
order the columns collapsed in and you

560
00:23:16,830 --> 00:23:13,230
know how far down was the collapse wave

561
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:16,840
inside the building but we can come up

562
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:19,210
with a plausible hypothesis that

563
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:21,430
explains it and the engineers like they

564
00:23:25,410 --> 00:23:22,690
have no problem you know the building

565
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:25,420
just fell down into itself and fell to

566
00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:30,250
pieces possible hypothesis is it like

567
00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:32,710
plausible hypotheses that could also be

568
00:23:37,020 --> 00:23:34,750
a part of explosives could it not

569
00:23:39,660 --> 00:23:37,030
I mean plausible is that sinister people

570
00:23:41,550 --> 00:23:39,670
have been listening as a plausible isn't

571
00:23:43,170 --> 00:23:41,560
a binary thing though it's not like you

572
00:23:45,930 --> 00:23:43,180
know this this is plausible this is

573
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:45,940
implausible and explosives like you know

574
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:48,250
make it onto the plausible site it's

575
00:23:54,420 --> 00:23:52,570
like you could like if you if you defy

576
00:23:55,830 --> 00:23:54,430
the operatory criteria and you say

577
00:23:58,110 --> 00:23:55,840
something's plausible but you know you

578
00:23:59,850 --> 00:23:58,120
can ask how plausible is something if

579
00:24:01,200 --> 00:23:59,860
you can actually ask how how plausible

580
00:24:03,660 --> 00:24:01,210
is it that means you can kind of put a

581
00:24:06,630 --> 00:24:03,670
number on it and how likely do you think

582
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:06,640
it actually is if he has a possibility

583
00:24:11,070 --> 00:24:08,290
of like you know a thousandth of a

584
00:24:13,410 --> 00:24:11,080
percent it's still plausible yeah but

585
00:24:16,290 --> 00:24:13,420
not very likely finds what is plausible

586
00:24:18,690 --> 00:24:16,300
who gets that nobody sitting through it

587
00:24:22,530 --> 00:24:18,700
nobody defines it it's not a there's not

588
00:24:25,410 --> 00:24:22,540
a thing that you can define yeah it's

589
00:24:28,180 --> 00:24:25,420
like whoever would define it as to how

590
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:28,190
possible it would be they would have

591
00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:30,110
of the world and how its put together

592
00:24:34,330 --> 00:24:32,270
and what interests there are in the

593
00:24:35,950 --> 00:24:34,340
world and what kind of power and ability

594
00:24:37,780 --> 00:24:35,960
they would have to do something like

595
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:37,790
that to get away with and how do you

596
00:24:45,550 --> 00:24:40,610
even like how do you even calculate that

597
00:24:48,220 --> 00:24:45,560
it's it's like yeah but it's so to me

598
00:24:51,130 --> 00:24:48,230
leave room for doubt that it's that it

599
00:24:53,530 --> 00:24:51,140
is possible and it is plausible in a way

600
00:24:58,030 --> 00:24:53,540
it is just as plausible as it falling

601
00:25:00,520 --> 00:24:58,040
down and by without explosives it I feel

602
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:00,530
if I have to be completely I don't know

603
00:25:04,930 --> 00:25:02,890
if I can claim that that would be being

604
00:25:08,860 --> 00:25:04,940
intellectually honest with myself that

605
00:25:12,940 --> 00:25:08,870
it is possible but I don't find evidence

606
00:25:17,170 --> 00:25:12,950
yet to support that theory is that maybe

607
00:25:20,470 --> 00:25:17,180
a way there's a thing in in skepticism

608
00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:20,480
called false balance which we constantly

609
00:25:25,630 --> 00:25:23,450
rail against which is where you present

610
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:25,640
both sides of the argument which seems

611
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:28,310
like a fair way of doing things that you

612
00:25:31,870 --> 00:25:30,410
have an expert on to say something and

613
00:25:34,540 --> 00:25:31,880
then you have another expert on putting

614
00:25:36,340 --> 00:25:34,550
the other side of the argument but if

615
00:25:40,090 --> 00:25:36,350
you look at things like say you know

616
00:25:42,340 --> 00:25:40,100
chemtrails and you get on like one guy a

617
00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:42,350
scientist with a PhD who saves

618
00:25:46,530 --> 00:25:44,270
chemtrails are real and then you get on

619
00:25:48,730 --> 00:25:46,540
another guy with a PhD who says that

620
00:25:51,610 --> 00:25:48,740
chemtrails are not real they're just

621
00:25:53,530 --> 00:25:51,620
contrails it makes it seem like things

622
00:25:56,050 --> 00:25:53,540
are 5050 it makes it seem like the

623
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:56,060
argument is is is you know kind of open

624
00:25:59,470 --> 00:25:58,010
for debate no one really knows like you

625
00:26:02,050 --> 00:25:59,480
know half the scientists say there's the

626
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:02,060
other half say that but you really don't

627
00:26:06,550 --> 00:26:04,250
have that 50/50 split in these things

628
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:06,560
with chemtrails I was involved in a

629
00:26:13,150 --> 00:26:09,290
survey of atmospheric scientists and we

630
00:26:14,740 --> 00:26:13,160
serve aids like 70 scientists and 76 of

631
00:26:16,420 --> 00:26:14,750
them were 100% no these are just

632
00:26:18,700 --> 00:26:16,430
contrails one guy was like oh I'm not

633
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:18,710
entirely sure about this one test but

634
00:26:24,430 --> 00:26:21,650
basically you don't have this split you

635
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:24,440
have 99 percent of scientists on one

636
00:26:29,470 --> 00:26:25,730
thing and you have one percent on the

637
00:26:31,930 --> 00:26:29,480
other thing and you can't have on a talk

638
00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:31,940
show host one scientist on one side and

639
00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:33,860
then 99 scientists on the other side

640
00:26:37,930 --> 00:26:35,240
because they wouldn't fit in the studio

641
00:26:40,420 --> 00:26:37,940
but that's really what the actual

642
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:40,430
balance is I see me so when you talk

643
00:26:44,410 --> 00:26:42,050
about like something like

644
00:26:47,140 --> 00:26:44,420
eleven you got you got a similar problem

645
00:26:50,140 --> 00:26:47,150
there yeah I interviewed on this podcast

646
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:50,150
a while ago a structural engineer from

647
00:26:55,930 --> 00:26:53,050
New York who worked on the 9/11 site and

648
00:26:57,730 --> 00:26:55,940
he said he knows lots of structural

649
00:26:59,680 --> 00:26:57,740
engineers in New York he's a senior guy

650
00:27:01,420 --> 00:26:59,690
it's like been working in New York for

651
00:27:03,310 --> 00:27:01,430
like 30 years in structural engineering

652
00:27:04,630 --> 00:27:03,320
he knows probably hundreds of structural

653
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:04,640
engineers in New York he doesn't know

654
00:27:09,610 --> 00:27:07,490
anybody any structural engineer in New

655
00:27:11,470 --> 00:27:09,620
York who believes in the controlled

656
00:27:14,740 --> 00:27:11,480
demolition theory so you know you've got

657
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:14,750
this this this false balance and you

658
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:16,970
can't say that we have to be more

659
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:18,710
even-handed in fact we probably have to

660
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:20,690
be less even-handed we need to like say

661
00:27:26,050 --> 00:27:23,510
what the actual balance is so saying

662
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:26,060
something is plausible doesn't mean it's

663
00:27:29,740 --> 00:27:27,890
like a 50-50 thing likes either this or

664
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:29,750
this I don't know which one it is it's

665
00:27:34,750 --> 00:27:31,250
they're saying there's a small chance

666
00:27:36,220 --> 00:27:34,760
this is small possibility the explosives

667
00:27:39,250 --> 00:27:36,230
were pre planted in the building and

668
00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:39,260
were timed exactly to go off to make it

669
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:41,090
look like to all the world's scientists

670
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:43,010
that it was a normal gravity driven

671
00:27:48,460 --> 00:27:46,490
collapse and you know that that's that's

672
00:27:50,980 --> 00:27:48,470
what happened but there's no real

673
00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:50,990
evidence of it but it's plausible there

674
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:52,310
really it's not it's not that plausible

675
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:54,320
this there's tiny little possibility

676
00:27:59,020 --> 00:27:56,890
that that might have happened but it's

677
00:28:01,650 --> 00:27:59,030
money bottling the things that would

678
00:28:05,770 --> 00:28:01,660
have to go on for it to actually exist

679
00:28:10,360 --> 00:28:05,780
yeah I can see what you are pointing out

680
00:28:13,030 --> 00:28:10,370
in regards to the that it is and what

681
00:28:15,610 --> 00:28:13,040
I'm worried about is is who who is going

682
00:28:18,700 --> 00:28:15,620
to get to define what is the right

683
00:28:20,620 --> 00:28:18,710
balance and who are those people gonna

684
00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:20,630
be and what trust is going to be put

685
00:28:26,020 --> 00:28:23,030
into those people that what balance is

686
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:26,030
given to us will be what is the real

687
00:28:32,950 --> 00:28:29,830
truth and historically science is

688
00:28:35,140 --> 00:28:32,960
luckily many it many times wrong and it

689
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:35,150
needs to be corrected and developed and

690
00:28:40,570 --> 00:28:38,210
evolved and by now oh the only process

691
00:28:43,270 --> 00:28:40,580
we know how to do that is to have the

692
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:43,280
debates and the comparisons of data and

693
00:28:49,630 --> 00:28:46,610
I mean to the viewer viewing the debate

694
00:28:52,930 --> 00:28:49,640
or the arguments or the the issues it

695
00:28:55,030 --> 00:28:52,940
seems like an uneven balance like like

696
00:28:55,990 --> 00:28:55,040
you explained that it is like this to

697
00:28:58,840 --> 00:28:56,000
scientists

698
00:29:01,360 --> 00:28:58,850
having having an argument but the idea

699
00:29:03,070 --> 00:29:01,370
that science isn't really done by debate

700
00:29:05,650 --> 00:29:03,080
though science is done by showing

701
00:29:07,540 --> 00:29:05,660
evidence and yeah when you get

702
00:29:09,250 --> 00:29:07,550
revolutions in science they don't come

703
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:09,260
about by people sitting in a room and

704
00:29:13,270 --> 00:29:10,910
like one side debating the other like

705
00:29:15,220 --> 00:29:13,280
Copernicus didn't like just have a

706
00:29:16,900 --> 00:29:15,230
simple debate he actually bill these

707
00:29:18,490 --> 00:29:16,910
observations and he showed other people

708
00:29:20,110 --> 00:29:18,500
how to do the same observations and he

709
00:29:21,190 --> 00:29:20,120
showed them the math and they were able

710
00:29:23,350 --> 00:29:21,200
to look at it

711
00:29:26,620 --> 00:29:23,360
auu actual evidence like the guy who

712
00:29:28,660 --> 00:29:26,630
discovered the bacteria cause ulcers he

713
00:29:31,450 --> 00:29:28,670
did an experiment by actually drinking

714
00:29:32,500 --> 00:29:31,460
some some bacteria and seeing that it

715
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:32,510
also has formed in his stomach

716
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:33,770
afterwards so he had he did this

717
00:29:39,550 --> 00:29:36,110
physical demonstration I go around to

718
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:39,560
those red chips yeah that's a piece of

719
00:29:44,410 --> 00:29:40,970
evidence like people debate about

720
00:29:46,540 --> 00:29:44,420
whether these things were explosives or

721
00:29:48,340 --> 00:29:46,550
not but this little plenty of dust

722
00:29:49,750 --> 00:29:48,350
around there still people have like

723
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:49,760
items of clothing of things that are

724
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:51,170
covered in dust they have samples of

725
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:53,090
dust all over the place like even people

726
00:29:56,500 --> 00:29:54,770
in the 9/11 truth community say that

727
00:29:58,810 --> 00:29:56,510
they're they have samples and dust if

728
00:30:00,580 --> 00:29:58,820
you actually have samples of dust that

729
00:30:02,980 --> 00:30:00,590
demonstrates that there were explosives

730
00:30:05,350 --> 00:30:02,990
in the dust why don't you get it tested

731
00:30:07,300 --> 00:30:05,360
why don't you actually you get an

732
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:07,310
independent lab to verify that this

733
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,290
house as dusting test ten different

734
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:11,120
samples from different locations and

735
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:12,290
then you go you got a hundred percent

736
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:15,050
proof this hasn't been done even though

737
00:30:18,460 --> 00:30:16,970
like people say though they said years

738
00:30:20,530 --> 00:30:18,470
ago they were going to do this testing

739
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:20,540
yeah the only what happened is I did

740
00:30:24,550 --> 00:30:22,370
they didn't do the testing for some

741
00:30:26,380 --> 00:30:24,560
reason or they did the testing it didn't

742
00:30:28,030 --> 00:30:26,390
show what they wanted it to show and so

743
00:30:31,650 --> 00:30:28,040
they didn't do it but you don't do

744
00:30:34,750 --> 00:30:31,660
science by debate you do science by

745
00:30:36,940 --> 00:30:34,760
presenting evidence and having other

746
00:30:39,010 --> 00:30:36,950
people verify that you have very

747
00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:39,020
reliable tests and things that you can

748
00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:41,510
do you could have people build models of

749
00:30:45,070 --> 00:30:43,310
the World Trade Center for example which

750
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:45,080
is something that's this being done so

751
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:46,730
multiple people could do that and you

752
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:48,530
could like have other people might look

753
00:30:53,050 --> 00:30:50,690
at those results and see yeah whether

754
00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:53,060
they are they are or they show one thing

755
00:30:59,070 --> 00:30:55,910
or the other but as we know data can

756
00:31:04,570 --> 00:30:59,080
also be misinterpreted and as through

757
00:31:06,940 --> 00:31:04,580
scientific former consensus is is

758
00:31:09,039 --> 00:31:06,950
that if you have a scientific consensus

759
00:31:10,509 --> 00:31:09,049
on something you have scientists saying

760
00:31:13,629 --> 00:31:10,519
that that's even dangerous because

761
00:31:16,060 --> 00:31:13,639
you're leaving out the room for having a

762
00:31:20,259 --> 00:31:16,070
discussion about the data you're leaving

763
00:31:22,239 --> 00:31:20,269
out the ability to to have a what I

764
00:31:24,190 --> 00:31:22,249
would call they'll call a debate about

765
00:31:25,899 --> 00:31:24,200
the data that we have and how to

766
00:31:28,479 --> 00:31:25,909
interpret the data and what it is

767
00:31:30,219 --> 00:31:28,489
showing us then anything stopping you

768
00:31:31,779 --> 00:31:30,229
from having the discussion you don't

769
00:31:34,570 --> 00:31:31,789
have to have it with other scientists

770
00:31:38,169 --> 00:31:34,580
but you can still present this science

771
00:31:40,119 --> 00:31:38,179
yeah yeah why do you think that say the

772
00:31:43,209 --> 00:31:40,129
papers that have been written about 911

773
00:31:44,709 --> 00:31:43,219
physics haven't been very well received

774
00:31:47,409 --> 00:31:44,719
you think it's they're being suppressed

775
00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,419
yep it there are scientists saying that

776
00:31:51,430 --> 00:31:49,279
the buildings collapsed too fast and

777
00:31:53,499 --> 00:31:51,440
things like that or you know just have

778
00:31:55,839 --> 00:31:53,509
explosives in it and they've actually

779
00:31:57,879 --> 00:31:55,849
written scientific papers so the co

780
00:32:00,579 --> 00:31:57,889
they're still participating in the

781
00:32:03,249 --> 00:32:00,589
process but yeah definitely I think that

782
00:32:06,789 --> 00:32:03,259
perhaps they misinterpret the lack of

783
00:32:10,299 --> 00:32:06,799
interest in their papers for some kind

784
00:32:12,129 --> 00:32:10,309
of suppression all those papers for and

785
00:32:14,379 --> 00:32:12,139
from my perspective it isn't really a

786
00:32:16,229 --> 00:32:14,389
suppression issue it's more of a a lack

787
00:32:18,459 --> 00:32:16,239
of interest because they think it's just

788
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:18,469
but you know I see I see you at your

789
00:32:22,949 --> 00:32:20,450
pointers that you you you think that the

790
00:32:27,069 --> 00:32:22,959
it's not a level playing field yeah yeah

791
00:32:29,639 --> 00:32:27,079
yeah I think it never will be and but

792
00:32:32,049 --> 00:32:29,649
you know science if something is

793
00:32:34,089 --> 00:32:32,059
demonstrable if you can show that it is

794
00:32:36,609 --> 00:32:34,099
true in a way that's verifiable and

795
00:32:39,729 --> 00:32:36,619
repeatable test and verifiable and

796
00:32:41,859 --> 00:32:39,739
repeatable then you can't ignore that

797
00:32:43,419 --> 00:32:41,869
you know science can't say like oh

798
00:32:44,709 --> 00:32:43,429
that's not true even though it's you

799
00:32:46,060 --> 00:32:44,719
know you can repeat the experiment it

800
00:32:48,819 --> 00:32:46,070
shows the same thing over and over again

801
00:32:52,329 --> 00:32:48,829
or you know this math works out if

802
00:32:54,489 --> 00:32:52,339
something was actual real science a real

803
00:32:56,079 --> 00:32:54,499
a real engineering issue a real

804
00:32:58,719 --> 00:32:56,089
structural engineering calculation that

805
00:32:59,919 --> 00:32:58,729
people have done isn't something that

806
00:33:04,060 --> 00:32:59,929
could be ignored

807
00:33:06,009 --> 00:33:04,070
is this this pure absolute thing that

808
00:33:09,969 --> 00:33:06,019
you can just put out there and explain

809
00:33:12,009 --> 00:33:09,979
to people and any other scientist if you

810
00:33:13,180 --> 00:33:12,019
have a have it explained to them they

811
00:33:15,190 --> 00:33:13,190
will see you know this is these are

812
00:33:16,779 --> 00:33:15,200
facts you can't argue with these things

813
00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:16,789
here here's the moons of Jupiter

814
00:33:20,350 --> 00:33:18,260
rotating around you which

815
00:33:22,750 --> 00:33:20,360
you know Kanna proves that you know

816
00:33:24,789 --> 00:33:22,760
gravity works in a certain way because

817
00:33:26,409 --> 00:33:24,799
you know you can't like you with with

818
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:26,419
these observations but what observations

819
00:33:35,100 --> 00:33:28,910
do you have from 9/11 that are equally

820
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:38,020
to the same to the same degree that if

821
00:33:42,610 --> 00:33:40,610
you see if you're seeing new you track

822
00:33:44,500 --> 00:33:42,620
the orbits of the planets and you see

823
00:33:48,340 --> 00:33:44,510
the old form ellipses around the Sun

824
00:33:51,730 --> 00:33:48,350
that tell is exactly with Newton's laws

825
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:51,740
of gravity mm-hmm and so that's gonna be

826
00:33:57,789 --> 00:33:53,750
in arguable observation the the world

827
00:33:59,650 --> 00:33:57,799
fits this model I don't I don't know you

828
00:34:02,890 --> 00:33:59,660
it's not evil it's an arguable that it

829
00:34:05,140 --> 00:34:02,900
fits yes yes that is inarguable yes I

830
00:34:07,539 --> 00:34:05,150
agree that isn't arguable but it's not

831
00:34:09,940 --> 00:34:07,549
an arguable that there can be an

832
00:34:11,290 --> 00:34:09,950
alternative interpretation of those

833
00:34:13,270 --> 00:34:11,300
physical phenomenons

834
00:34:15,310 --> 00:34:13,280
you know I mean this is this false

835
00:34:17,409 --> 00:34:15,320
balance that you talk about to me is I

836
00:34:21,129 --> 00:34:17,419
think it's correct that it does become a

837
00:34:25,060 --> 00:34:21,139
false balance but I think it still needs

838
00:34:27,220 --> 00:34:25,070
to be entrusted into the viewer that

839
00:34:30,970 --> 00:34:27,230
they have to be able to make up their

840
00:34:33,099 --> 00:34:30,980
own mind if we are to approach a world

841
00:34:36,180 --> 00:34:33,109
where someone will be given the

842
00:34:38,619 --> 00:34:36,190
authority to define what is to be

843
00:34:42,250 --> 00:34:38,629
debated or discussed and talked about

844
00:34:45,909 --> 00:34:42,260
because it's might not be scientifically

845
00:34:48,430 --> 00:34:45,919
even in the debate spectrum then I I'm

846
00:34:50,230 --> 00:34:48,440
afraid of those people because I I don't

847
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:50,240
have a guarantee that those people in

848
00:34:55,599 --> 00:34:53,570
charge of regulating the spectrum of

849
00:34:58,900 --> 00:34:55,609
debate will always have genuine

850
00:35:00,640 --> 00:34:58,910
interests in or since their interests in

851
00:35:04,030 --> 00:35:00,650
regulating it in an objective and

852
00:35:07,530 --> 00:35:04,040
neutral way so right now as you're

853
00:35:09,490 --> 00:35:07,540
talking about YouTube and Facebook and

854
00:35:12,190 --> 00:35:09,500
Google exam Twitter

855
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:12,200
answer ship yeah they're the people now

856
00:35:17,950 --> 00:35:15,890
who are essentially regulating I

857
00:35:19,720 --> 00:35:17,960
wouldn't say they're regulating debates

858
00:35:23,590 --> 00:35:19,730
cuz you can still have debate but they

859
00:35:26,770 --> 00:35:23,600
do things now like they will they will

860
00:35:28,330 --> 00:35:26,780
do rank videos on the water so if you

861
00:35:31,090 --> 00:35:28,340
search for Flat Earth videos now you

862
00:35:34,210 --> 00:35:31,100
hardly find any you know Flat Earth

863
00:35:36,910 --> 00:35:34,220
truth videos and similarly they're not

864
00:35:38,170 --> 00:35:36,920
to the same extent with 911 if you

865
00:35:39,870 --> 00:35:38,180
search for 911

866
00:35:44,770 --> 00:35:39,880
you used to get lots more videos

867
00:35:47,260 --> 00:35:44,780
discussing your the 911 theories and you

868
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:47,270
don't hear that now and and I'm not

869
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:49,610
entirely sure that's that's that's a

870
00:35:54,430 --> 00:35:50,810
good thing because I think it's kind of

871
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:54,440
pushing things underground I do feel the

872
00:35:59,710 --> 00:35:57,170
way things stand right now it's it's

873
00:36:01,990 --> 00:35:59,720
okay because they are targeting things

874
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:02,000
that are you know pretty much just

875
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:04,010
continual misinformation being put out

876
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:06,170
there but I think it's kind of in a

877
00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:09,200
waste of slippery slope yeah where do

878
00:36:13,390 --> 00:36:11,210
you draw the line where do you say this

879
00:36:15,820 --> 00:36:13,400
is a conspiracy theory that is

880
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:15,830
demonstrably false or you know this is

881
00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:17,570
just people who are suspicious of people

882
00:36:22,990 --> 00:36:19,790
in power so we shouldn't let them have

883
00:36:25,630 --> 00:36:23,000
that discussion so yeah yeah I I would

884
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:25,640
agree and I I you know I've been

885
00:36:28,780 --> 00:36:27,170
following the whole thing I talked a

886
00:36:31,210 --> 00:36:28,790
little bit about it in the book like you

887
00:36:33,850 --> 00:36:31,220
know with the censorship for the social

888
00:36:35,820 --> 00:36:33,860
media companies yeah that a lot of them

889
00:36:37,630 --> 00:36:35,830
are doing it now for advertising

890
00:36:41,470 --> 00:36:37,640
advertisers don't like being associated

891
00:36:42,970 --> 00:36:41,480
with fringe topics yeah and yeah they

892
00:36:45,250 --> 00:36:42,980
did say it wasn't interesting like the

893
00:36:46,990 --> 00:36:45,260
amount of Fringe material that they have

894
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:47,000
on YouTube I think they they said it

895
00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:48,770
accounted for something like three

896
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:51,770
percent or something of Vol views or

897
00:36:55,090 --> 00:36:53,210
maybe like even less than that one

898
00:36:56,530 --> 00:36:55,100
percent it was like a very very small

899
00:36:59,050 --> 00:36:56,540
amount so it didn't actually change

900
00:37:01,210 --> 00:36:59,060
things that much rather than Isis but

901
00:37:03,610 --> 00:37:01,220
they don't actually they still don't

902
00:37:04,780 --> 00:37:03,620
want their our adverts showing up on

903
00:37:08,980 --> 00:37:04,790
these videos as opposed they could just

904
00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:08,990
take the adverts off person it's a

905
00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:11,930
tricky one yeah definitely is and it's

906
00:37:17,950 --> 00:37:15,110
far it's hard to know what principles to

907
00:37:20,380 --> 00:37:17,960
follow to regulate the transfer of

908
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:20,390
information correctly and whoever gets

909
00:37:24,970 --> 00:37:22,010
to define that what is the correct

910
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:24,980
information to transfer across the world

911
00:37:29,770 --> 00:37:28,010
is authoritarian in a way to me I mean

912
00:37:33,870 --> 00:37:29,780
when you get private corporations

913
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:33,880
regulating information in that way i i i

914
00:37:42,490 --> 00:37:36,770
I don't I don't look brightly at the

915
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:42,500
future then I die it's and then you know

916
00:37:47,970 --> 00:37:44,890
part of where they're coming from

917
00:37:49,620 --> 00:37:47,980
the YouTube people there's youtubers

918
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:49,630
being used as a recruitment tool for

919
00:37:54,090 --> 00:37:51,970
jihadists and that they were put up

920
00:37:56,460 --> 00:37:54,100
these these videos and I see what they

921
00:37:58,920 --> 00:37:56,470
used to he not do it anymore

922
00:38:02,790 --> 00:37:58,930
and they would put up sometimes private

923
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:02,800
videos and they would be shown to

924
00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:05,170
impressionable young men who would later

925
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:08,470
turn into jihadists sometimes suicide

926
00:38:13,350 --> 00:38:12,010
bombers they you know the the stuff that

927
00:38:15,450 --> 00:38:13,360
they were with in these videos was

928
00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:15,460
essentially conspiracy theories in a way

929
00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:16,810
like you know they would they would they

930
00:38:20,130 --> 00:38:18,610
would repeat things like the 9/11 truth

931
00:38:21,900 --> 00:38:20,140
conspiracy theory like say look what

932
00:38:24,030 --> 00:38:21,910
America will do to its own people like

933
00:38:26,220 --> 00:38:24,040
they are evil and instead we're

934
00:38:29,130 --> 00:38:26,230
justified in in kicking him out of Saudi

935
00:38:32,070 --> 00:38:29,140
Arabia or whatever and they do I think

936
00:38:34,620 --> 00:38:32,080
where the the YouTube stuff kind of

937
00:38:37,230 --> 00:38:34,630
started the clamping down thing was with

938
00:38:39,690 --> 00:38:37,240
these kind of extremist violence stuff

939
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:39,700
and then they've they've seen like like

940
00:38:44,250 --> 00:38:41,170
you're some kind of correlation between

941
00:38:47,340 --> 00:38:44,260
conspiracy theories in general and this

942
00:38:49,830 --> 00:38:47,350
type of of extremist behavior I you see

943
00:38:51,990 --> 00:38:49,840
it like in America conspiracy theories

944
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:52,000
have this strong rooting and it's the

945
00:38:57,270 --> 00:38:54,910
extreme right which tends to be people

946
00:38:59,040 --> 00:38:57,280
like malicious yeah things like they

947
00:39:00,510 --> 00:38:59,050
talk about the Waco Siege and I feel

948
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:00,520
familiar with that that was like a yeah

949
00:39:04,980 --> 00:39:02,770
very famous thing in American history

950
00:39:06,690 --> 00:39:04,990
where there was a siege of a religious

951
00:39:08,820 --> 00:39:06,700
compound where they were had lots of

952
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:08,830
guns in it and then they burnt down and

953
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:12,010
lost people died and that's that's

954
00:39:17,099 --> 00:39:14,710
become part of the fabric of right-wing

955
00:39:18,750 --> 00:39:17,109
conspiracy theorists and the militia and

956
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:18,760
everything and then you can in domestic

957
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:21,690
terrorism because you got this this

958
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:24,730
mythology built up around how we're

959
00:39:29,700 --> 00:39:26,890
fighting the evil government and that we

960
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:29,710
need to start doing things like bombing

961
00:39:33,810 --> 00:39:32,050
the Oklahoma City Federal Building which

962
00:39:36,420 --> 00:39:33,820
is something that happened by guys who

963
00:39:38,580 --> 00:39:36,430
believed in conspiracy theories yeah

964
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:38,590
back then yuichi wasn't such a big thing

965
00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:41,170
but now like if you get people who buy

966
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:43,630
into these these conspiracy theories

967
00:39:47,550 --> 00:39:45,130
they might think that they need to take

968
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:47,560
action on it and you might get like more

969
00:39:50,580 --> 00:39:49,450
domestic terrorism based on this so I

970
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:50,590
think that's part of what they are

971
00:39:55,349 --> 00:39:52,810
thinking about they're trying to prevent

972
00:39:57,420 --> 00:39:55,359
prevent extremist violence but of course

973
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:57,430
that doesn't help like you know me and

974
00:40:01,330 --> 00:39:58,370
you know just

975
00:40:03,100 --> 00:40:01,340
we want to talk about the actual topics

976
00:40:05,700 --> 00:40:03,110
from a scientific point of view yeah

977
00:40:08,830 --> 00:40:05,710
yeah and the the the for example the

978
00:40:10,930 --> 00:40:08,840
example of right-wing extremism in the

979
00:40:12,940 --> 00:40:10,940
United States like right after you wake

980
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:12,950
oh you had the Ruby bridge instant

981
00:40:19,200 --> 00:40:15,770
incident where people got shot as well

982
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:19,210
by the police and there was a standoff I

983
00:40:23,650 --> 00:40:21,650
it's it's when it comes to right-wing

984
00:40:26,050 --> 00:40:23,660
extremists for example when they talk

985
00:40:29,140 --> 00:40:26,060
about Waco incident and how that whole

986
00:40:30,940 --> 00:40:29,150
process when and how the police behaved

987
00:40:33,550 --> 00:40:30,950
and has been made movies and

988
00:40:35,410 --> 00:40:33,560
documentaries and leaks of information

989
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:35,420
and all kinds of stuff and it's there

990
00:40:40,810 --> 00:40:37,760
are points where the right-wing

991
00:40:44,470 --> 00:40:40,820
extremist takes something that is true

992
00:40:47,770 --> 00:40:44,480
that that is true in regards to certain

993
00:40:50,650 --> 00:40:47,780
areas of what happened in Waco but then

994
00:40:54,250 --> 00:40:50,660
they use that to fuel a political and

995
00:40:57,820 --> 00:40:54,260
emotional and ideological state of mind

996
00:41:01,960 --> 00:40:57,830
to to justify radical changes that they

997
00:41:04,210 --> 00:41:01,970
want to you know push on the world and I

998
00:41:06,790 --> 00:41:04,220
find that the only way to approach these

999
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:06,800
people is to like you talked about find

1000
00:41:10,270 --> 00:41:08,810
common ground tell them that yeah you

1001
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:10,280
were right about this stuff yeah you're

1002
00:41:14,770 --> 00:41:12,050
right about this and this happened and

1003
00:41:16,810 --> 00:41:14,780
but not not this and maybe you're doing

1004
00:41:19,510 --> 00:41:16,820
this too but just to are over

1005
00:41:23,830 --> 00:41:19,520
interpreting this so I find that that is

1006
00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:23,840
the only way to kind of make people drop

1007
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:25,760
their guns in a way because I feel that

1008
00:41:31,450 --> 00:41:28,010
the extreme right when they bring up

1009
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:31,460
these topics you find that some parts of

1010
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:33,890
the media in the unit in the US are sort

1011
00:41:39,100 --> 00:41:36,170
of on their side on and have reported

1012
00:41:41,860 --> 00:41:39,110
what happened at Waco and and and and

1013
00:41:44,050 --> 00:41:41,870
what critiques you could give to the FBI

1014
00:41:46,330 --> 00:41:44,060
and the hostage negotiation and the way

1015
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:46,340
they were behaving while approaching the

1016
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:48,650
compound and all that stuff but and then

1017
00:41:52,030 --> 00:41:49,970
you have other media channels saying

1018
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:52,040
that the people who are arguing the Waco

1019
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:54,410
incident at all Looney Tunes and that

1020
00:41:57,880 --> 00:41:55,970
they're conspiratorial right-wing

1021
00:41:59,890 --> 00:41:57,890
extremists and that's the only term they

1022
00:42:01,720 --> 00:41:59,900
get and I think that's dangerous because

1023
00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:01,730
it's not having a conversation with the

1024
00:42:06,550 --> 00:42:03,920
people so they become just more extreme

1025
00:42:08,710 --> 00:42:06,560
and then if you remove all of their ways

1026
00:42:10,810 --> 00:42:08,720
of communicating with each other and the

1027
00:42:12,100 --> 00:42:10,820
idea is that they are communicating like

1028
00:42:14,860 --> 00:42:12,110
you say you push them on the ground

1029
00:42:17,770 --> 00:42:14,870
you're censoring them you are you are

1030
00:42:20,800 --> 00:42:17,780
making it harder for the public and for

1031
00:42:23,530 --> 00:42:20,810
everyone else to see what is the status

1032
00:42:25,990 --> 00:42:23,540
quo of the world what is what are the

1033
00:42:29,020 --> 00:42:26,000
opinions out there what what do we need

1034
00:42:31,420 --> 00:42:29,030
to worry about and and III think that's

1035
00:42:33,940 --> 00:42:31,430
I think that's even more dangerous to

1036
00:42:36,130 --> 00:42:33,950
not know what they worry about the most

1037
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:36,140
in the world because certain topics have

1038
00:42:43,540 --> 00:42:40,610
been removed from the public view and I

1039
00:42:46,450 --> 00:42:43,550
think repression as for Robert Kennedy

1040
00:42:50,710 --> 00:42:46,460
said repression breeds retaliation it

1041
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:50,720
just increases friction it doesn't calm

1042
00:42:55,180 --> 00:42:53,090
people down and they get an argument to

1043
00:42:58,090 --> 00:42:55,190
say that look they censored us like Alex

1044
00:43:01,600 --> 00:42:58,100
Jones says now we've he makes it into a

1045
00:43:02,260 --> 00:43:01,610
point and an argument in his case and

1046
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:02,270
he's right

1047
00:43:07,540 --> 00:43:05,690
he has been censored he has been yes but

1048
00:43:09,790 --> 00:43:07,550
I think you gotta ask the we stay with

1049
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:09,800
Alex Jones say someone who's obviously

1050
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:12,650
like you know kind of a deep conspiracy

1051
00:43:16,930 --> 00:43:14,210
theorist but who someone who does use

1052
00:43:19,810 --> 00:43:16,940
like you know valid criticism to frame

1053
00:43:21,550 --> 00:43:19,820
his is crazier a serious like like yes

1054
00:43:25,870 --> 00:43:21,560
Sandy Hook being being fake and stuff

1055
00:43:28,450 --> 00:43:25,880
I think if Alex Jones is deep platformed

1056
00:43:30,700 --> 00:43:28,460
what is the net effect of that is it a

1057
00:43:32,110 --> 00:43:30,710
good effect or is it a bad effect you

1058
00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:32,120
know you're is gonna have some some

1059
00:43:35,950 --> 00:43:34,400
negative effects from that and people

1060
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:35,960
will think oh that this proves the

1061
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:37,910
government is evil and they've you know

1062
00:43:41,770 --> 00:43:40,490
they push Alex Jones off therefore like

1063
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:41,780
I'm gonna follow him wherever he goes

1064
00:43:46,930 --> 00:43:44,690
and onto the dark web and then you've

1065
00:43:49,210 --> 00:43:46,940
got thousands or millions of people who

1066
00:43:51,070 --> 00:43:49,220
don't see Alex Jones anymore and don't

1067
00:43:53,700 --> 00:43:51,080
he'll is drip drip drip for Alex Jones

1068
00:43:58,060 --> 00:43:53,710
like dropping poison into their minds

1069
00:44:00,700 --> 00:43:58,070
yeah so I'm not entirely sure within

1070
00:44:02,290 --> 00:44:00,710
that particular case like whether it's a

1071
00:44:04,270 --> 00:44:02,300
good thing or a bad thing I kind of I

1072
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:04,280
kind of tend to think that it's a good

1073
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:05,930
thing that he doesn't have a platform

1074
00:44:09,250 --> 00:44:08,450
even though there are these obvious

1075
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:09,260
negatives

1076
00:44:13,470 --> 00:44:11,690
I think that's there's a worry that's

1077
00:44:15,810 --> 00:44:13,480
you know what comes after Alex Jones

1078
00:44:19,950 --> 00:44:15,820
Alex Jones like is a fairly clear-cut

1079
00:44:23,050 --> 00:44:19,960
case yeah I who was harassing parents of

1080
00:44:25,270 --> 00:44:23,060
the Sandy Hook victim saying it was it

1081
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:25,280
was fake and all kinds of you know if

1082
00:44:27,310 --> 00:44:25,970
you look into the people

1083
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:27,320
used to work with them as all kinds of

1084
00:44:33,130 --> 00:44:30,050
bad stuff which is on those four as well

1085
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:33,140
no guys now that it's been he has been

1086
00:44:40,030 --> 00:44:38,450
taken to court and now from what I've

1087
00:44:41,890 --> 00:44:40,040
seen though he has been he's been under

1088
00:44:45,670 --> 00:44:41,900
Joe Rogan experience a couple of times

1089
00:44:49,420 --> 00:44:45,680
after after that happened he has it been

1090
00:44:52,810 --> 00:44:49,430
an admission of guilt in a way and I

1091
00:44:54,670 --> 00:44:52,820
feel that if if you when you ban people

1092
00:44:56,530 --> 00:44:54,680
permanently you don't give them an

1093
00:44:58,660 --> 00:44:56,540
opportunity to correct themselves and

1094
00:45:01,000 --> 00:44:58,670
come back and say you know I was wrong

1095
00:45:03,190 --> 00:45:01,010
about this and actually tell people that

1096
00:45:05,740 --> 00:45:03,200
I was wrong about saying you you're

1097
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:05,750
being denied the opportunity for what

1098
00:45:10,450 --> 00:45:06,970
would you call it

1099
00:45:11,980 --> 00:45:10,460
Redemption emption yeah yeah I like to

1100
00:45:14,260 --> 00:45:11,990
give people a second chance myself when

1101
00:45:16,150 --> 00:45:14,270
I I banned people from my site Medibank

1102
00:45:17,620 --> 00:45:16,160
here when they overstepped the line

1103
00:45:18,730 --> 00:45:17,630
which is usually when they there are

1104
00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:18,740
they're not following the posting

1105
00:45:21,940 --> 00:45:20,150
guidelines they just post lots of stuff

1106
00:45:24,130 --> 00:45:21,950
or they're especially rude like they

1107
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:24,140
start insulting year yeah there's people

1108
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:26,930
that I banned and then I do a temporary

1109
00:45:32,710 --> 00:45:29,090
ban and then let them back and then I'll

1110
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:32,720
do like a one-year ban and then I'll let

1111
00:45:36,099 --> 00:45:33,890
them back oh then I'll just do an

1112
00:45:39,099 --> 00:45:36,109
indefinite ban and I'll let them back

1113
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:39,109
this there's one guy who was a 9/11

1114
00:45:41,349 --> 00:45:39,530
truther

1115
00:45:42,730 --> 00:45:41,359
he might have heard it I won't mention

1116
00:45:45,790 --> 00:45:42,740
him now because he tends to get very

1117
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:45,800
upset whenever I mention his name but

1118
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:48,050
you know I banned him I think like five

1119
00:45:52,750 --> 00:45:50,720
years ago that and then he came back the

1120
00:45:54,339 --> 00:45:52,760
next year and he was more contrite and

1121
00:45:55,599 --> 00:45:54,349
then there was that like a listless chat

1122
00:45:57,250 --> 00:45:55,609
and you know we had some reasonable

1123
00:45:59,079 --> 00:45:57,260
conversations and then he stayed going

1124
00:46:02,140 --> 00:45:59,089
off again and then he started like

1125
00:46:03,849 --> 00:46:02,150
sending me these there's these

1126
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:03,859
aggressive PM's

1127
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:06,530
and so I plant them again and then yeah

1128
00:46:10,210 --> 00:46:08,930
a year later he came back and like he

1129
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:10,220
seemed fine you know so I let him on

1130
00:46:14,500 --> 00:46:12,890
again and as guilty of that and now I

1131
00:46:15,940 --> 00:46:14,510
kind of chat to him on on Twitter

1132
00:46:18,870 --> 00:46:15,950
occasionally and you know he's still

1133
00:46:21,940 --> 00:46:18,880
banned but it's not like I flows off all

1134
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:21,950
all I mean used so what you say you

1135
00:46:29,710 --> 00:46:25,930
would like that you get banned ya know

1136
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:29,720
that after your one of you Joe Rogan

1137
00:46:33,870 --> 00:46:32,510
experiences and I was I was so mad at

1138
00:46:38,380 --> 00:46:33,880
you for the way you were communicating

1139
00:46:39,289 --> 00:46:38,390
the again totalitarian alternative of

1140
00:46:42,679 --> 00:46:39,299
had

1141
00:46:44,479 --> 00:46:42,689
you know the bong 911 and and I was I

1142
00:46:47,089 --> 00:46:44,489
remember that I was I was really really

1143
00:46:50,839 --> 00:46:47,099
frustrated as to the way it was being

1144
00:46:55,269 --> 00:46:50,849
communicated and and even perhaps you

1145
00:46:58,370 --> 00:46:55,279
would maybe today convey or communicated

1146
00:47:00,069 --> 00:46:58,380
differently in a way I don't know it I

1147
00:47:03,439 --> 00:47:00,079
think it's evolved

1148
00:47:06,559 --> 00:47:03,449
my approach has evolved so how I talk to

1149
00:47:09,019 --> 00:47:06,569
people and I think you know I'd I've

1150
00:47:10,789 --> 00:47:09,029
since that time I've started this

1151
00:47:12,259 --> 00:47:10,799
podcast which has been going on about

1152
00:47:15,469 --> 00:47:12,269
and in now seven or eight months or so I

1153
00:47:17,739 --> 00:47:15,479
got this is episode 34 that we recording

1154
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:17,749
right now and it's what is January

1155
00:47:21,769 --> 00:47:20,249
January the 5th right now and I think I

1156
00:47:26,179 --> 00:47:21,779
started it back in June or something

1157
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:26,189
like that and things have evolved I I

1158
00:47:29,929 --> 00:47:28,049
talk to people a bit differently and you

1159
00:47:32,929 --> 00:47:29,939
know it listened a bit more than I used

1160
00:47:34,999 --> 00:47:32,939
to to people and you know try to let

1161
00:47:37,759 --> 00:47:35,009
them have their say and understand them

1162
00:47:39,739 --> 00:47:37,769
more you know I still did that back then

1163
00:47:41,809 --> 00:47:39,749
but I think I I do it more now and

1164
00:47:44,479 --> 00:47:41,819
certainly a lot more now than I did say

1165
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,489
five years ago and definitely more than

1166
00:47:49,269 --> 00:47:46,319
when I started out doing debunking like

1167
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:49,279
10 years ago when I was you know almost

1168
00:47:53,870 --> 00:47:52,319
dismissive of these crazy theories and

1169
00:47:56,509 --> 00:47:53,880
saying oh it's obviously this and things

1170
00:47:59,629 --> 00:47:56,519
like that so yeah I think I've evolved

1171
00:48:02,209 --> 00:47:59,639
simply because one approach works better

1172
00:48:05,120 --> 00:48:02,219
than the other approach and yeah yeah

1173
00:48:07,999 --> 00:48:05,130
yeah it's just it's really good not to

1174
00:48:09,679 --> 00:48:08,009
be static and I wonder how things are

1175
00:48:14,209 --> 00:48:09,689
gonna change in the future and I am I

1176
00:48:16,339 --> 00:48:14,219
going to continue to evolve even more

1177
00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:16,349
reasonable and nicer and just let other

1178
00:48:21,709 --> 00:48:19,380
people talk all the time or back and

1179
00:48:24,259 --> 00:48:21,719
start being a more aggressive

1180
00:48:28,849 --> 00:48:24,269
will say it is spooky to think of the

1181
00:48:30,199 --> 00:48:28,859
future it really is yeah yeah and you

1182
00:48:33,079 --> 00:48:30,209
think it'd be in terms of things like

1183
00:48:37,729 --> 00:48:33,089
say 9/11 truth and how long it has been

1184
00:48:39,439 --> 00:48:37,739
since 9/11 nineteen years yeah we were

1185
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:39,449
having similar discussions about the

1186
00:48:46,669 --> 00:48:44,729
evidence 18 years ago yeah how how are

1187
00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:46,679
things actually evolved have they

1188
00:48:51,919 --> 00:48:48,630
actually evolved why is it taking 19

1189
00:48:52,610 --> 00:48:51,929
years to get to where we are now and

1190
00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:52,620
we're really know

1191
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:55,740
anywhere in particular in terms of 9/11

1192
00:49:00,740 --> 00:48:57,210
truth and where are we going to get over

1193
00:49:03,290 --> 00:49:00,750
the next ten years you think that's like

1194
00:49:06,410 --> 00:49:03,300
the state of 9/11 truth right now and

1195
00:49:09,830 --> 00:49:06,420
where it's where it's heading I find

1196
00:49:15,740 --> 00:49:09,840
that it's a movement that is kind of

1197
00:49:18,950 --> 00:49:15,750
slowly very slowly dying off a little

1198
00:49:22,070 --> 00:49:18,960
bit but the architects and engineers for

1199
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:22,080
9/11 truth is definitely a really

1200
00:49:27,550 --> 00:49:24,240
powerful movement because they have

1201
00:49:31,100 --> 00:49:27,560
credentials they have people who are

1202
00:49:32,690 --> 00:49:31,110
almost dedicated their lives to

1203
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:32,700
something that they really do believe

1204
00:49:39,860 --> 00:49:35,490
and that movement I think will persist

1205
00:49:44,030 --> 00:49:39,870
for many many years to come and I I have

1206
00:49:46,580 --> 00:49:44,040
to say that I I think they some of the

1207
00:49:48,050 --> 00:49:46,590
people in 9/11 true or not 9/11 truth

1208
00:49:49,550 --> 00:49:48,060
but the architects and engineers who are

1209
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:49,560
in that group some of them you can have

1210
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:51,570
very reasonable debates and you know

1211
00:49:57,920 --> 00:49:54,720
conversations and lively discussions

1212
00:50:01,910 --> 00:49:57,930
with and I I find that to be important

1213
00:50:06,110 --> 00:50:01,920
and I think it's um I think it's if I do

1214
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:06,120
it from a societal function as having

1215
00:50:13,460 --> 00:50:10,650
that group or a e-911 that opposite poll

1216
00:50:16,660 --> 00:50:13,470
that group of people who is able to

1217
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:16,670
question the narrative of a or a

1218
00:50:23,630 --> 00:50:20,370
consensus of a incidence of such as 9/11

1219
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:23,640
and you put questions up and some of the

1220
00:50:28,010 --> 00:50:25,890
questions can be more legitimate

1221
00:50:31,850 --> 00:50:28,020
questions than others and I think that's

1222
00:50:35,050 --> 00:50:31,860
important to have that sort of growth

1223
00:50:37,820 --> 00:50:35,060
but the problems arise where you have

1224
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:37,830
their own way of being behaving

1225
00:50:43,130 --> 00:50:39,810
totalitarian in their opinions and their

1226
00:50:45,860 --> 00:50:43,140
ways of interpreting evidence where like

1227
00:50:50,270 --> 00:50:45,870
other people do look at it as facts and

1228
00:50:53,390 --> 00:50:50,280
as proven and they rail and they they

1229
00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:53,400
get together and they it creates an

1230
00:50:57,500 --> 00:50:55,650
image of the world where yeah you don't

1231
00:51:00,260 --> 00:50:57,510
get much faith in the world if you want

1232
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:00,270
to get into you know really start

1233
00:51:04,310 --> 00:51:03,090
believing what they are saying but I

1234
00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:04,320
think they have an important function

1235
00:51:06,530 --> 00:51:05,730
that's what I'm trying to get to it's

1236
00:51:10,070 --> 00:51:06,540
it's an important

1237
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,080
function2 to have the ability in the

1238
00:51:16,100 --> 00:51:12,720
society to to talk about these issues

1239
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:16,110
and to even have those opinions of 9/11

1240
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:18,390
I think it's really important because if

1241
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:20,910
I need to be able to make up my mind I

1242
00:51:28,610 --> 00:51:25,680
need to have different kinds of views of

1243
00:51:32,510 --> 00:51:28,620
the data out that well would you say

1244
00:51:36,260 --> 00:51:32,520
that the chemtrails people are equally

1245
00:51:37,820 --> 00:51:36,270
important they do engineering watch.org

1246
00:51:39,590 --> 00:51:37,830
this big site that talks about

1247
00:51:41,710 --> 00:51:39,600
chemtrails and lots of people will point

1248
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:41,720
you to as being this authoritarian site

1249
00:51:47,360 --> 00:51:44,490
giving the the other side of the story

1250
00:51:48,950 --> 00:51:47,370
on chemtrails is that as important as

1251
00:51:53,210 --> 00:51:48,960
the architects and engineers for 9/11

1252
00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:53,220
truth I haven't dug too much into the

1253
00:52:00,820 --> 00:51:57,330
chemtrail debate but for example where

1254
00:52:03,500 --> 00:52:00,830
they where I do think they have a

1255
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:03,510
perhaps hypothetically now I'm not

1256
00:52:05,870 --> 00:52:04,530
saying that they do have but

1257
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:05,880
hypothetically where they could have a

1258
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:09,330
good function for example they could use

1259
00:52:15,340 --> 00:52:12,000
arguments like that the army sprayed

1260
00:52:18,250 --> 00:52:15,350
Saint Louis with toxic aerosol during

1261
00:52:23,150 --> 00:52:18,260
1950 s which is documented and proven

1262
00:52:25,490 --> 00:52:23,160
but if if if that's something that the

1263
00:52:27,380 --> 00:52:25,500
government could do in one incident and

1264
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:27,390
that's all that happened and it hasn't

1265
00:52:31,460 --> 00:52:29,610
repeated since it was an experiment for

1266
00:52:35,570 --> 00:52:31,470
completely different purposes than

1267
00:52:39,170 --> 00:52:35,580
chemtrails in that in that sense then I

1268
00:52:41,060 --> 00:52:39,180
think it's good to have that group who

1269
00:52:43,310 --> 00:52:41,070
can bring up that issue and remember it

1270
00:52:45,830 --> 00:52:43,320
and and talk about it and communicate it

1271
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:45,840
regardless of how radical their

1272
00:52:50,110 --> 00:52:48,090
viewpoints otherwise are because I want

1273
00:52:52,670 --> 00:52:50,120
to look at this group and I want to hear

1274
00:52:54,740 --> 00:52:52,680
what is this group saying what are they

1275
00:52:58,430 --> 00:52:54,750
right about what are they wrong about

1276
00:53:03,230 --> 00:52:58,440
and then again the common ground but if

1277
00:53:05,180 --> 00:53:03,240
you if if I think it's more damaging for

1278
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:05,190
them to exist and talk the way they do

1279
00:53:11,089 --> 00:53:07,280
or if it's

1280
00:53:13,160 --> 00:53:11,099
it's really hard to answer that and yeah

1281
00:53:15,020 --> 00:53:13,170
I can't say yes or no I mean you you

1282
00:53:18,039 --> 00:53:15,030
it's not like saying they're damaging or

1283
00:53:21,410 --> 00:53:18,049
or constructive I mean it could be like

1284
00:53:24,109 --> 00:53:21,420
neutral or constructive like if is there

1285
00:53:26,599 --> 00:53:24,119
an actual reason for them existing you

1286
00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:26,609
gave this example of the toxic spraying

1287
00:53:30,530 --> 00:53:28,650
over st. Louis but you know that

1288
00:53:32,270 --> 00:53:30,540
actually what this sprayed wasn't

1289
00:53:34,370 --> 00:53:32,280
actually toxic it was just kind of these

1290
00:53:36,470 --> 00:53:34,380
tracer things that they were using to

1291
00:53:37,910 --> 00:53:36,480
see how far things spread and they they

1292
00:53:39,410 --> 00:53:37,920
didn't think at the time that it was

1293
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:39,420
toxic and then you know they later

1294
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:42,240
discovered it was toxic in in the same

1295
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:44,160
to the same degree as secondhand smoke

1296
00:53:48,260 --> 00:53:46,770
is toxic it's got this you know today's

1297
00:53:49,940 --> 00:53:48,270
standard they wouldn't they wouldn't

1298
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:49,950
allow it to it to be sprayed in the air

1299
00:53:55,460 --> 00:53:51,920
because it's got this is very very minor

1300
00:53:58,030 --> 00:53:55,470
effect but you know so that that's a bit

1301
00:54:00,799 --> 00:53:58,040
of misinformation in itself that the

1302
00:54:04,130 --> 00:54:00,809
misinformation well if they're saying

1303
00:54:06,859 --> 00:54:04,140
that the US government sprayed the US

1304
00:54:09,260 --> 00:54:06,869
population with biological weapons which

1305
00:54:11,030 --> 00:54:09,270
is what they say then yeah yeah that's

1306
00:54:12,500 --> 00:54:11,040
misinformation it's because that's not

1307
00:54:14,930 --> 00:54:12,510
what actually happened they sprayed them

1308
00:54:16,460 --> 00:54:14,940
with what they call analogues of toxic

1309
00:54:18,920 --> 00:54:16,470
weapons which is something there's an

1310
00:54:21,770 --> 00:54:18,930
analogous to the toxic weapon like they

1311
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:21,780
use a a harmless bacteria or the years

1312
00:54:26,990 --> 00:54:24,000
this zinc cadmium sulfate which is this

1313
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:27,000
very slightly fluorescent chemical that

1314
00:54:31,010 --> 00:54:28,890
you spray which you know like I say is

1315
00:54:32,630 --> 00:54:31,020
it's very very slightly carcinogenic

1316
00:54:34,970 --> 00:54:32,640
like secondhand smoke is cussing a Jake

1317
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:34,980
or in your number of pollutants are

1318
00:54:39,230 --> 00:54:36,690
carcinogenic and they probably wouldn't

1319
00:54:40,670 --> 00:54:39,240
use that now but when it's rated at the

1320
00:54:42,410 --> 00:54:40,680
time they thought that it was just this

1321
00:54:44,030 --> 00:54:42,420
harmless little fluorescent dye that

1322
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:44,040
they could spray and see how far things

1323
00:54:50,960 --> 00:54:47,490
spread but I guess misrepresented as

1324
00:54:52,940 --> 00:54:50,970
being mrs. Madison a spray biological

1325
00:54:54,109 --> 00:54:52,950
weapons on as before therefore that

1326
00:54:56,660 --> 00:54:54,119
you're probably doing it now and these

1327
00:54:58,700 --> 00:54:56,670
lines that we see in the sky may well be

1328
00:55:01,970 --> 00:54:58,710
them spraying those biological weapons

1329
00:55:03,950 --> 00:55:01,980
like they did back then so yes sure I

1330
00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:03,960
it's great to present information like

1331
00:55:07,370 --> 00:55:05,730
that but you know that that's it's in

1332
00:55:09,049 --> 00:55:07,380
the Wikipedia article and there's lots

1333
00:55:11,210 --> 00:55:09,059
of other there's lots of histories of

1334
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:11,220
that type of thing now yeah it's not

1335
00:55:16,130 --> 00:55:12,690
like you need the chem trail people to

1336
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:16,140
tell you about about these things no no

1337
00:55:19,910 --> 00:55:18,210
it's it's not but it's it's still those

1338
00:55:21,050 --> 00:55:19,920
people that you get to hear it from I've

1339
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:21,060
never actually heard of that

1340
00:55:25,250 --> 00:55:23,250
incident until I actually go into one of

1341
00:55:27,770 --> 00:55:25,260
these groups and then see what they but

1342
00:55:29,720 --> 00:55:27,780
I agree they do they do misrepresent the

1343
00:55:31,790 --> 00:55:29,730
information especially with the title

1344
00:55:33,500 --> 00:55:31,800
that you gave to for example the

1345
00:55:35,030 --> 00:55:33,510
incident as they had sprayed the

1346
00:55:37,490 --> 00:55:35,040
population of blah blah blah because it

1347
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:37,500
it constructs an image of an intent to

1348
00:55:43,010 --> 00:55:40,800
actually really go in and do damage to

1349
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:43,020
the US population well that wasn't the

1350
00:55:51,980 --> 00:55:48,210
intent the incident in its the way was

1351
00:55:54,590 --> 00:55:51,990
you know it it still happened but how do

1352
00:55:56,990 --> 00:55:54,600
you present the incident in the correct

1353
00:55:59,810 --> 00:55:57,000
way and of course they do misrepresented

1354
00:56:01,580 --> 00:55:59,820
to to justify their cause but it that's

1355
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:01,590
where again if you talk to these people

1356
00:56:07,460 --> 00:56:05,010
I would just say yeah that incident was

1357
00:56:09,680 --> 00:56:07,470
real I I agree it it's true and just

1358
00:56:12,290 --> 00:56:09,690
saying I agree that what that that

1359
00:56:15,770 --> 00:56:12,300
happened what's the way you are

1360
00:56:18,290 --> 00:56:15,780
presenting it is as if and then have you

1361
00:56:21,440 --> 00:56:18,300
know the common ground of your case and

1362
00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:21,450
your point here is correct but and then

1363
00:56:28,850 --> 00:56:24,330
and instead of just calling them names

1364
00:56:30,740 --> 00:56:28,860
you know like yes no I agree with with

1365
00:56:32,950 --> 00:56:30,750
with with that largely I think like

1366
00:56:35,270 --> 00:56:32,960
people who are conspiracy theorists

1367
00:56:37,190 --> 00:56:35,280
often bring up good points they talk

1368
00:56:39,230 --> 00:56:37,200
about u.s. foreign policy and the

1369
00:56:41,810 --> 00:56:39,240
history of CIA involvement in other

1370
00:56:44,470 --> 00:56:41,820
governments and covert actions that the

1371
00:56:47,690 --> 00:56:44,480
CIA has done within the United States

1372
00:56:51,140 --> 00:56:47,700
dirty dealings like the the CIA's

1373
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:51,150
invitation of the the media in the 70s

1374
00:56:56,480 --> 00:56:54,330
and yeah 70s Lee overtly ended it in the

1375
00:56:58,310 --> 00:56:56,490
center in the 70s things like that you

1376
00:57:00,800 --> 00:56:58,320
know I I might not have heard of had I

1377
00:57:03,500 --> 00:57:00,810
not been interested in debunking

1378
00:57:05,570 --> 00:57:03,510
conspiracy theories so you know you get

1379
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:05,580
good information by talking to people

1380
00:57:09,350 --> 00:57:08,130
who are far away from you things that

1381
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:09,360
you might yeah good even if you don't go

1382
00:57:14,420 --> 00:57:11,850
all the way over there you still you

1383
00:57:17,690 --> 00:57:14,430
still find stuff to this interest from

1384
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:17,700
those people and yeah and by talking to

1385
00:57:21,590 --> 00:57:20,160
them you can help them clarify their

1386
00:57:23,570 --> 00:57:21,600
understanding of things as well like if

1387
00:57:26,210 --> 00:57:23,580
they're saying things like you know the

1388
00:57:28,580 --> 00:57:26,220
CIA admits that it has control of all

1389
00:57:30,260 --> 00:57:28,590
the newspapers I spin say things like

1390
00:57:32,420 --> 00:57:30,270
that I mean then you say oh well

1391
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:32,430
actually that's that was something that

1392
00:57:36,590 --> 00:57:35,010
some guy said in 1973

1393
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:36,600
he was saying it about what happened in

1394
00:57:41,270 --> 00:57:38,490
the fifties and sixties you can give so

1395
00:57:43,010 --> 00:57:41,280
many context to that and yeah maybe they

1396
00:57:44,240 --> 00:57:43,020
do have control now but you know they

1397
00:57:45,950 --> 00:57:44,250
they haven't admitted it in the way that

1398
00:57:48,140 --> 00:57:45,960
you you've just said so you can actually

1399
00:57:50,630 --> 00:57:48,150
you know by having a conversation with

1400
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:50,640
people it helps both of you you learn

1401
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:53,010
stuff and they learn stuff and hopefully

1402
00:57:57,140 --> 00:57:55,650
we all move a bit closer together closer

1403
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:57,150
to a better understanding of the world

1404
00:58:03,710 --> 00:58:01,440
that control the media I agree with you

1405
00:58:05,690 --> 00:58:03,720
but role of the media I mean in in

1406
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:05,700
government's interest and historically

1407
00:58:12,260 --> 00:58:08,490
the control of media is essential to

1408
00:58:14,750 --> 00:58:12,270
make the population stay in line for the

1409
00:58:17,510 --> 00:58:14,760
society to function the way the elite

1410
00:58:19,990 --> 00:58:17,520
wants the society to go around basically

1411
00:58:23,510 --> 00:58:20,000
I mean just in the Soviet Union

1412
00:58:26,330 --> 00:58:23,520
incidents in the United States and how

1413
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:26,340
propaganda is used to communicate the

1414
00:58:32,570 --> 00:58:29,850
reasons for war and you know just like a

1415
00:58:36,110 --> 00:58:32,580
few days ago I found out that the United

1416
00:58:40,270 --> 00:58:36,120
States had tried to yet the the UN

1417
00:58:43,910 --> 00:58:40,280
Council the push for war in Iraq in 2000

1418
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:43,920
2002 and there was a woman working in

1419
00:58:49,310 --> 00:58:46,130
the intelligence community in the UK

1420
00:58:53,210 --> 00:58:49,320
that leaked this document that proved

1421
00:58:56,020 --> 00:58:53,220
that the US was willing and able and

1422
00:58:59,180 --> 00:58:56,030
intentionally trying to disrupt the UN

1423
00:59:02,090 --> 00:58:59,190
conversations to push for basically war

1424
00:59:06,050 --> 00:59:02,100
and and I'm like why isn't this more

1425
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:06,060
prominent today in the debate of how how

1426
00:59:12,620 --> 00:59:09,330
politics in war and everything revolves

1427
00:59:15,590 --> 00:59:12,630
in in the world why isn't this put in

1428
00:59:18,530 --> 00:59:15,600
the history books why isn't this this

1429
00:59:20,450 --> 00:59:18,540
information available easily for for

1430
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:20,460
people you know put it in people's faces

1431
00:59:25,820 --> 00:59:23,250
they need to understand that that there

1432
00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:25,830
is a behavior from governments and from

1433
00:59:30,820 --> 00:59:28,290
corporate interests and from military

1434
00:59:35,420 --> 00:59:30,830
people to just get what they want to get

1435
00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:35,430
ego and through ego you you you get

1436
00:59:41,780 --> 00:59:38,490
manifestations of cooperation of a

1437
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:41,790
common goal which then in turn creates a

1438
00:59:46,610 --> 00:59:44,490
conspiracy and that's where the term

1439
00:59:48,610 --> 00:59:46,620
conspiracy becomes such a loaded term

1440
00:59:51,130 --> 00:59:48,620
because public in

1441
00:59:53,890 --> 00:59:51,140
interpretation of the word that I just

1442
00:59:57,220 --> 00:59:53,900
become worried in regards to the state

1443
01:00:00,310 --> 00:59:57,230
of the media now and how little they do

1444
01:00:03,340 --> 01:00:00,320
touch upon these critical issues and

1445
01:00:05,950 --> 01:00:03,350
instead present you trivial issues such

1446
01:00:08,590 --> 01:00:05,960
as there was a bad weather storm there

1447
01:00:10,690 --> 01:00:08,600
was a there was a drowning incident

1448
01:00:14,260 --> 01:00:10,700
there was a fire there was a it's just

1449
01:00:16,750 --> 01:00:14,270
everyday it doesn't get you anyway it

1450
01:00:19,090 --> 01:00:16,760
doesn't develop you as an individual

1451
01:00:20,350 --> 01:00:19,100
yeah well I kind of agree with that I

1452
01:00:22,900 --> 01:00:20,360
think the media isn't doing a very good

1453
01:00:26,020 --> 01:00:22,910
job of informing the public about what's

1454
01:00:27,550 --> 01:00:26,030
really going on I think yeah when you're

1455
01:00:29,460 --> 01:00:27,560
talking about that it reminds me of the

1456
01:00:33,250 --> 01:00:29,470
the term the military-industrial complex

1457
01:00:35,470 --> 01:00:33,260
he was a term coined by Eisenhower when

1458
01:00:36,670 --> 01:00:35,480
he left office he said be aware of the

1459
01:00:39,580 --> 01:00:36,680
formation of a military-industrial

1460
01:00:43,270 --> 01:00:39,590
complex which is like you know this this

1461
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:43,280
close symbiotic relationship between the

1462
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:45,770
military and the industry that supplies

1463
01:00:51,250 --> 01:00:48,290
the military and the government via

1464
01:00:52,810 --> 01:00:51,260
lobbying and the revolving door and this

1465
01:00:55,180 --> 01:00:52,820
is something that's obviously you know

1466
01:00:56,830 --> 01:00:55,190
come to pass and it's something that's

1467
01:00:59,320 --> 01:00:56,840
been around for a long time it is this

1468
01:01:03,780 --> 01:00:59,330
is thing that's kind of underlies a lot

1469
01:01:06,070 --> 01:01:03,790
of American near the American political

1470
01:01:08,020 --> 01:01:06,080
decisions that are made are made because

1471
01:01:09,670 --> 01:01:08,030
of the military industrial complex cause

1472
01:01:12,670 --> 01:01:09,680
us you know where the money is there in

1473
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:12,680
that and oil is you know what's what

1474
01:01:19,150 --> 01:01:15,170
America is kind of basing all of their

1475
01:01:20,380 --> 01:01:19,160
foreign policy decisions upon so it's a

1476
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:20,390
real thing and I think that it's

1477
01:01:25,240 --> 01:01:23,450
something that the the media like in a

1478
01:01:28,930 --> 01:01:25,250
way is just kind of like that we talked

1479
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:28,940
about that in the 70s and here we kind

1480
01:01:32,110 --> 01:01:30,770
of know it more or less exists and now

1481
01:01:33,490 --> 01:01:32,120
we're talking about something else this

1482
01:01:35,230 --> 01:01:33,500
it's like it's just you aren't

1483
01:01:37,120 --> 01:01:35,240
interested anymore yeah you're giving

1484
01:01:41,530 --> 01:01:37,130
the public what they want not that what

1485
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:41,540
they need for example if you focused 10%

1486
01:01:47,680 --> 01:01:45,050
or 20% of your energy and time into for

1487
01:01:49,060 --> 01:01:47,690
example digging into that problem that

1488
01:01:52,120 --> 01:01:49,070
you're just talking about in regards to

1489
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:52,130
media behavior the relationship between

1490
01:01:57,790 --> 01:01:55,130
media military güstrow complex private

1491
01:02:01,220 --> 01:01:57,800
corporation lobbying funding of

1492
01:02:05,890 --> 01:02:01,230
presidential campaigns if you spent

1493
01:02:09,770 --> 01:02:05,900
some energy on that and presented a new

1494
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:09,780
view of how this relationship functions

1495
01:02:13,910 --> 01:02:12,210
in presumably the United States or in

1496
01:02:16,910 --> 01:02:13,920
the world and how it affects the world

1497
01:02:19,490 --> 01:02:16,920
then I think you would have a common

1498
01:02:22,160 --> 01:02:19,500
ground that you could communicate to

1499
01:02:24,740 --> 01:02:22,170
basically any conspiratorial minded

1500
01:02:29,150 --> 01:02:24,750
person that would find a relationship

1501
01:02:31,750 --> 01:02:29,160
with you and kind of entrusting you with

1502
01:02:34,849 --> 01:02:31,760
that okay this guy really does have a

1503
01:02:37,460 --> 01:02:34,859
analysis of the world that I can relate

1504
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:37,470
and and a level of communicating on

1505
01:02:44,260 --> 01:02:40,650
because what you've been doing until

1506
01:02:48,020 --> 01:02:44,270
this book I feel is basically just

1507
01:02:51,320 --> 01:02:48,030
disproving most theories that people can

1508
01:02:54,790 --> 01:02:51,330
come up with and without the carrot

1509
01:02:58,340 --> 01:02:54,800
without the alternative view point of

1510
01:02:59,720 --> 01:02:58,350
redirection if you if you only critique

1511
01:03:02,330 --> 01:02:59,730
and debunk them

1512
01:03:04,820 --> 01:03:02,340
you're not leaving them with a what

1513
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:04,830
would I say a guide to a new path or a

1514
01:03:09,950 --> 01:03:06,930
guide to a new perspective

1515
01:03:12,740 --> 01:03:09,960
you are basically perhaps I'm just

1516
01:03:15,770 --> 01:03:12,750
speculating here absolving them of their

1517
01:03:17,690 --> 01:03:15,780
belief system in a way and for many

1518
01:03:19,700 --> 01:03:17,700
people that can be positive but for some

1519
01:03:21,650 --> 01:03:19,710
people that that's not positive they

1520
01:03:24,590 --> 01:03:21,660
don't have anything to stand on and they

1521
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:24,600
they go into defensive mode and they

1522
01:03:30,349 --> 01:03:27,690
want to protect that view of the world

1523
01:03:32,660 --> 01:03:30,359
because it's it is their sensation of

1524
01:03:35,570 --> 01:03:32,670
existing in the world in a way and that

1525
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:35,580
is like a religious defensive mechanism

1526
01:03:39,380 --> 01:03:37,440
in a way almost so what what do you

1527
01:03:40,910 --> 01:03:39,390
think would happen if you spent time

1528
01:03:43,340 --> 01:03:40,920
yeah you know I've always kind of said

1529
01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:43,350
that before there's lots of other people

1530
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:45,810
looking into these other issues like the

1531
01:03:48,770 --> 01:03:47,280
military industrial complex and

1532
01:03:51,500 --> 01:03:48,780
corruption and things like that or even

1533
01:03:53,480 --> 01:03:51,510
like the more mainstream conspiracy

1534
01:03:54,560 --> 01:03:53,490
theories like vaccines being harmful and

1535
01:03:56,120 --> 01:03:54,570
covered up by the pharmaceutical

1536
01:03:57,440 --> 01:03:56,130
industry life theories like that yeah I

1537
01:03:58,550 --> 01:03:57,450
don't look into those because they're

1538
01:04:01,609 --> 01:03:58,560
mainstream and there's lots of other

1539
01:04:03,770 --> 01:04:01,619
people talking about them but I have

1540
01:04:06,260 --> 01:04:03,780
found that because I haven't looked into

1541
01:04:07,820 --> 01:04:06,270
them it does in a way close off some

1542
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:07,830
doors to me because people come and they

1543
01:04:12,230 --> 01:04:10,170
want to talk to me about those things

1544
01:04:13,730 --> 01:04:12,240
and yeah I'm not really that familiar

1545
01:04:14,630 --> 01:04:13,740
with and I'm not really familiar with

1546
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:14,640
the whole

1547
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:16,650
same thing or even even climate change

1548
01:04:21,800 --> 01:04:19,650
or you know things like that and even

1549
01:04:23,060 --> 01:04:21,810
even things like you know the foreign

1550
01:04:25,010 --> 01:04:23,070
policy and the military-industrial

1551
01:04:27,740 --> 01:04:25,020
complex I'm not that familiar with them

1552
01:04:30,400 --> 01:04:27,750
so I think yeah I think you may be right

1553
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:30,410
maybe I should spend a bit more time

1554
01:04:34,310 --> 01:04:32,850
maybe maybe writing about them or maybe

1555
01:04:37,550 --> 01:04:34,320
like talking about them or talking to

1556
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:37,560
people about about these issues so that

1557
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:39,690
there's a bit more of a shared common

1558
01:04:45,050 --> 01:04:43,200
ground that we can we can get through to

1559
01:04:46,970 --> 01:04:45,060
people on and it's not just simply I'm

1560
01:04:49,220 --> 01:04:46,980
just picking away at the low-hanging

1561
01:04:51,200 --> 01:04:49,230
fruit of their extreme conspiracy

1562
01:04:53,360 --> 01:04:51,210
theorists that there isn't hoping though

1563
01:04:55,790 --> 01:04:53,370
they'll move down you can have a more of

1564
01:04:59,630 --> 01:04:55,800
a basis for for that movement in the

1565
01:05:01,160 --> 01:04:59,640
other direction yeah I imagine being one

1566
01:05:03,260 --> 01:05:01,170
of those people approaching you and

1567
01:05:05,300 --> 01:05:03,270
trying to have a conversation with you

1568
01:05:07,700 --> 01:05:05,310
for example on the issues that are real

1569
01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:07,710
conspiracy conspiracies if you want to

1570
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:10,770
call it that or and and III think I

1571
01:05:16,430 --> 01:05:13,170
would have the sensation of not being

1572
01:05:18,380 --> 01:05:16,440
able to establish a common ground with

1573
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:18,390
you if you were not familiar with the

1574
01:05:24,290 --> 01:05:21,690
real what would you call your conspiracy

1575
01:05:26,570 --> 01:05:24,300
theories in the world and if if there's

1576
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:26,580
not a common ground to be reached on

1577
01:05:32,180 --> 01:05:29,760
uncertain or just the most fundamental

1578
01:05:35,140 --> 01:05:32,190
issues in the world then you are in a

1579
01:05:38,450 --> 01:05:35,150
way maybe alienating them from from

1580
01:05:40,460 --> 01:05:38,460
perhaps even bothering to look further

1581
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:40,470
into what you're saying as well because

1582
01:05:45,500 --> 01:05:43,530
all they see then is that you dismissing

1583
01:05:48,560 --> 01:05:45,510
a bunch of theories and stuff and they

1584
01:05:50,090 --> 01:05:48,570
it doesn't guy it it can guide them

1585
01:05:52,460 --> 01:05:50,100
somewhere depending on what kind of

1586
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:52,470
person you are but for some people I can

1587
01:05:56,420 --> 01:05:54,090
imagine it doesn't but it's fascinating

1588
01:05:59,000 --> 01:05:56,430
to me that you've that you've had this

1589
01:06:01,520 --> 01:05:59,010
personal development into this that is

1590
01:06:04,220 --> 01:06:01,530
it is taking you somewhere and I think

1591
01:06:06,850 --> 01:06:04,230
that's really cool it's really beautiful

1592
01:06:09,710 --> 01:06:06,860
and it is like you said I would imagine

1593
01:06:13,250 --> 01:06:09,720
it's not just closing doors but it's

1594
01:06:16,010 --> 01:06:13,260
it's it's also opening doors for you to

1595
01:06:17,330 --> 01:06:16,020
look at things that you like you said

1596
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:17,340
that you hadn't heard of before you

1597
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:19,410
hadn't heard of these maybe aerosol

1598
01:06:23,420 --> 01:06:21,210
incident in st. Louis hadn't had been

1599
01:06:27,290 --> 01:06:23,430
for these radicals that communicated in

1600
01:06:28,549 --> 01:06:27,300
an in an extreme way and I think I think

1601
01:06:30,829 --> 01:06:28,559
that's really good I think that's

1602
01:06:33,529 --> 01:06:30,839
healthy and and for a person like you

1603
01:06:35,179 --> 01:06:33,539
you can approach I mean if you went to

1604
01:06:37,689 --> 01:06:35,189
YouTube and Alex Jones was on there

1605
01:06:40,969 --> 01:06:37,699
screaming about some you know a

1606
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:40,979
multi-dimensional alien reptiles then

1607
01:06:47,150 --> 01:06:44,130
you would you wouldn't trust yourself to

1608
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:47,160
have the ability to listen to him and to

1609
01:06:52,939 --> 01:06:50,089
basically just take from it what you

1610
01:06:56,299 --> 01:06:52,949
wanted to take because you have that

1611
01:06:59,089 --> 01:06:56,309
mental ability and you could find points

1612
01:07:01,189 --> 01:06:59,099
where maybe he's got a point and where

1613
01:07:04,299 --> 01:07:01,199
he is you know are giving his extreme

1614
01:07:07,489 --> 01:07:04,309
viewpoints from something that is true

1615
01:07:09,439 --> 01:07:07,499
and I think that's that's that's the

1616
01:07:11,420 --> 01:07:09,449
trust that I would want to give everyone

1617
01:07:14,420 --> 01:07:11,430
in the public the same ability that you

1618
01:07:16,339 --> 01:07:14,430
have to to go in there and analyze the

1619
01:07:19,699 --> 01:07:16,349
data that you have being presented but

1620
01:07:21,439 --> 01:07:19,709
it's not it's not it's in it's almost

1621
01:07:23,089 --> 01:07:21,449
naive of me to say that I would trust

1622
01:07:27,069 --> 01:07:23,099
that because of course you have people

1623
01:07:30,289 --> 01:07:27,079
who you know so it's it's really

1624
01:07:33,199 --> 01:07:30,299
difficult for me to to say where I would

1625
01:07:35,179 --> 01:07:33,209
draw the line I think we can't do

1626
01:07:37,489 --> 01:07:35,189
anything else but trust human

1627
01:07:40,759 --> 01:07:37,499
development yeah you kind of hear what

1628
01:07:42,589 --> 01:07:40,769
you're saying it's it's I think

1629
01:07:44,689 --> 01:07:42,599
establishing common ground is is a

1630
01:07:46,579 --> 01:07:44,699
fundamental thing for any conversation

1631
01:07:48,769 --> 01:07:46,589
if you're gonna have a true conversation

1632
01:07:51,679 --> 01:07:48,779
that you could have build rapport it's

1633
01:07:53,299 --> 01:07:51,689
like the first first step I just read a

1634
01:07:58,239 --> 01:07:53,309
book called how to have impossible

1635
01:08:00,890 --> 01:07:58,249
conversations by Peter Bogosian and he

1636
01:08:03,370 --> 01:08:00,900
he gives this this list of things Nate

1637
01:08:05,689 --> 01:08:03,380
and the first step is build rapport

1638
01:08:08,660 --> 01:08:05,699
which is just talk about something that

1639
01:08:10,370 --> 01:08:08,670
you have in common it doesn't have to be

1640
01:08:11,989 --> 01:08:10,380
simply like talking about football or

1641
01:08:13,579 --> 01:08:11,999
talking about the weather it can be it

1642
01:08:15,949 --> 01:08:13,589
can be talking about a topic that is

1643
01:08:17,839 --> 01:08:15,959
closer to the topic you actually want to

1644
01:08:19,669 --> 01:08:17,849
talk about where you you have some

1645
01:08:21,079 --> 01:08:19,679
common ground you know and of course I

1646
01:08:23,870 --> 01:08:21,089
talked about in the book find common

1647
01:08:26,149 --> 01:08:23,880
ground but it's there is usually common

1648
01:08:28,879 --> 01:08:26,159
ground that's close to the conspiracy

1649
01:08:30,349 --> 01:08:28,889
theory so you need there's a range of

1650
01:08:32,450 --> 01:08:30,359
areas where you can get this common

1651
01:08:35,629 --> 01:08:32,460
ground but yeah finding something you

1652
01:08:36,740 --> 01:08:35,639
both agree on that's related to the

1653
01:08:39,979 --> 01:08:36,750
types of things you're talking about

1654
01:08:40,519 --> 01:08:39,989
like say a government corruption of some

1655
01:08:41,809 --> 01:08:40,529
sort

1656
01:08:42,400 --> 01:08:41,819
you both agree that in this government

1657
01:08:44,200 --> 01:08:42,410
corrupt

1658
01:08:46,990 --> 01:08:44,210
and I think that's that's a vital part

1659
01:08:48,130 --> 01:08:47,000
of new establishing rapport if you're

1660
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:48,140
going to be talking about different

1661
01:08:52,570 --> 01:08:50,570
types of government corruption you start

1662
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:52,580
out by saying yeah this is some this is

1663
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:54,170
an area where I think there is genuine

1664
01:08:57,670 --> 01:08:55,730
corruption and this is an area where

1665
01:08:59,560 --> 01:08:57,680
it's being proven that that's Grimpen

1666
01:09:01,210 --> 01:08:59,570
and here it's obvious that there is

1667
01:09:05,350 --> 01:09:01,220
corruption and you know you can agree on

1668
01:09:07,050 --> 01:09:05,360
that so yeah like establishing rapport

1669
01:09:11,050 --> 01:09:07,060
and establishing kind of like a

1670
01:09:13,900 --> 01:09:11,060
foundation for a conversation is better

1671
01:09:15,370 --> 01:09:13,910
than simply throwing out debunks saying

1672
01:09:17,650 --> 01:09:15,380
like you know this thing that you

1673
01:09:19,660 --> 01:09:17,660
claimed to be true is in fact false and

1674
01:09:22,120 --> 01:09:19,670
here is why because of this so we can

1675
01:09:25,480 --> 01:09:22,130
get rid of that so if you start building

1676
01:09:28,360 --> 01:09:25,490
things up it works better than just

1677
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,370
shooting things down yeah yeah because I

1678
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:30,080
think that's just a sensation that

1679
01:09:35,830 --> 01:09:31,250
they're having that you're shooting it

1680
01:09:37,990 --> 01:09:35,840
down you you are yeah basically yeah

1681
01:09:40,990 --> 01:09:38,000
yeah that's I think that's a good way to

1682
01:09:43,810 --> 01:09:41,000
put are you shooting it down I have to

1683
01:09:47,470 --> 01:09:43,820
ask in regards to the the tick-tack UFO

1684
01:09:49,270 --> 01:09:47,480
incident after after the probably I

1685
01:09:52,750 --> 01:09:49,280
would imagine heavy critique that you

1686
01:09:55,780 --> 01:09:52,760
got for some of your interpretations of

1687
01:09:57,850 --> 01:09:55,790
seagulls and reflections in the cockpit

1688
01:10:00,280 --> 01:09:57,860
which I have to admit made me laugh a

1689
01:10:01,630 --> 01:10:00,290
little bit because if I understand that

1690
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:01,640
you are presenting an alternative

1691
01:10:06,640 --> 01:10:04,730
explanation to kind of calm with let's

1692
01:10:09,550 --> 01:10:06,650
let's look at it more carefully and

1693
01:10:13,510 --> 01:10:09,560
let's I totally get that but it to

1694
01:10:16,240 --> 01:10:13,520
people who are let's say who have really

1695
01:10:18,190 --> 01:10:16,250
dug into the incident who have listened

1696
01:10:20,500 --> 01:10:18,200
to the witness reports from all of the

1697
01:10:24,730 --> 01:10:20,510
pilots who saw exactly the same thing or

1698
01:10:26,020 --> 01:10:24,740
the the radar where witnesses who was

1699
01:10:28,720 --> 01:10:26,030
sitting at the radar controllers who

1700
01:10:31,780 --> 01:10:28,730
have not come out and you know witness

1701
01:10:32,950 --> 01:10:31,790
that we didn't see this in this and and

1702
01:10:35,770 --> 01:10:32,960
if you take all of this into

1703
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:35,780
consideration and a correlation of and

1704
01:10:41,110 --> 01:10:38,530
and try to draw a red line through it

1705
01:10:44,620 --> 01:10:41,120
how do you feel now about that incident

1706
01:10:49,750 --> 01:10:44,630
you feel that I think it's it's

1707
01:10:54,670 --> 01:10:49,760
unidentified objects I mean it was

1708
01:10:56,170 --> 01:10:54,680
probably flying I don't know what what's

1709
01:10:57,520 --> 01:10:56,180
what he saw and I've been

1710
01:10:58,690 --> 01:10:57,530
I've still been fairly active like the

1711
01:11:01,230 --> 01:10:58,700
last couple of days I've been spending

1712
01:11:04,720 --> 01:11:01,240
time on Twitter and I actually made a

1713
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:04,730
small model of the the tic-tac which I

1714
01:11:10,540 --> 01:11:08,570
have right here so I can do some

1715
01:11:12,190 --> 01:11:10,550
experiments with like me and bringing it

1716
01:11:13,930 --> 01:11:12,200
closer to the camera or and bringing it

1717
01:11:15,490 --> 01:11:13,940
further away and seeing what it looks

1718
01:11:17,530 --> 01:11:15,500
like in the distance and seeing if I can

1719
01:11:20,620 --> 01:11:17,540
match up the video so it's still active

1720
01:11:23,470 --> 01:11:20,630
ongoing discussion one of these videos

1721
01:11:25,840 --> 01:11:23,480
show the the eyewitness accounts I think

1722
01:11:28,090 --> 01:11:25,850
are a bit variable like for example

1723
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:28,100
you've got like an interview with Chad

1724
01:11:34,540 --> 01:11:32,210
Underwood who is a guy who is he took

1725
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:34,550
the video at the famous video of the the

1726
01:11:39,430 --> 01:11:37,370
tic-tac in the distance and in his

1727
01:11:41,770 --> 01:11:39,440
interview he talks about the incredible

1728
01:11:43,570 --> 01:11:41,780
maneuvers that it made then in the

1729
01:11:45,820 --> 01:11:43,580
interview it makes it seem like he

1730
01:11:47,230 --> 01:11:45,830
actually saw these maneuvers but really

1731
01:11:49,270 --> 01:11:47,240
he's talking about what other people

1732
01:11:51,520 --> 01:11:49,280
said they saw and so you get all this

1733
01:11:54,730 --> 01:11:51,530
kind of conflation of these different

1734
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:54,740
accounts and it seems like you've got

1735
01:11:59,790 --> 01:11:57,530
this one cohesive whole when really you

1736
01:12:03,130 --> 01:11:59,800
still have really all these separate

1737
01:12:05,560 --> 01:12:03,140
accounts you have the the video which

1738
01:12:07,150 --> 01:12:05,570
shows this black fuzzy dot like far away

1739
01:12:09,220 --> 01:12:07,160
and the distance that kind of jumps

1740
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:09,230
around as they change the camera zoom

1741
01:12:14,620 --> 01:12:12,560
lenses and the infrared visible yeah you

1742
01:12:18,460 --> 01:12:14,630
have people talking about radar returns

1743
01:12:21,100 --> 01:12:18,470
where this object was at 20,000 feet and

1744
01:12:22,890 --> 01:12:21,110
it dropped to 500 feet and or underneath

1745
01:12:26,970 --> 01:12:22,900
the water depending on who you talk to

1746
01:12:29,770 --> 01:12:26,980
yeah and then you have the accounts of

1747
01:12:32,140 --> 01:12:29,780
commander flavor and the the the other

1748
01:12:35,260 --> 01:12:32,150
pilot who said that they were vetted out

1749
01:12:37,890 --> 01:12:35,270
to a certain location and then it looked

1750
01:12:41,740 --> 01:12:37,900
down and they saw this this this little

1751
01:12:43,930 --> 01:12:41,750
tic-tac thing flying around above the

1752
01:12:46,270 --> 01:12:43,940
surface of the water and then they flew

1753
01:12:49,300 --> 01:12:46,280
down and it flew around them and then it

1754
01:12:51,310 --> 01:12:49,310
zipped off away horizontally these are

1755
01:12:53,710 --> 01:12:51,320
all different things they don't really

1756
01:12:55,750 --> 01:12:53,720
correlate like the you know being

1757
01:12:57,700 --> 01:12:55,760
vectored to a particular location that

1758
01:13:00,190 --> 01:12:57,710
was just you pretty much anywhere within

1759
01:13:02,890 --> 01:13:00,200
like five mile square radius because

1760
01:13:05,260 --> 01:13:02,900
there that they got to the location that

1761
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:05,270
they're still going at 200 miles an hour

1762
01:13:08,650 --> 01:13:07,010
and it takes a little while before they

1763
01:13:10,030 --> 01:13:08,660
finally spot something and that's like

1764
01:13:12,400 --> 01:13:10,040
20,000 feet down

1765
01:13:14,740 --> 01:13:12,410
which 20,000 fetus is like four miles

1766
01:13:16,860 --> 01:13:14,750
down and you know who knows what angle

1767
01:13:20,020 --> 01:13:16,870
that's that so it's probably miles away

1768
01:13:21,400 --> 01:13:20,030
and that's they didn't see some things

1769
01:13:23,320 --> 01:13:21,410
drop out of the sky which is what the

1770
01:13:24,670 --> 01:13:23,330
radar saw and they didn't see something

1771
01:13:26,500 --> 01:13:24,680
far away in the distance moving very

1772
01:13:29,020 --> 01:13:26,510
slowly which is what Chad Underwood

1773
01:13:29,950 --> 01:13:29,030
filmed in his fuzzy little video so

1774
01:13:31,990 --> 01:13:29,960
you've got all these different things

1775
01:13:33,280 --> 01:13:32,000
and people put them all together and

1776
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:33,290
then they say like oh people on the ship

1777
01:13:36,850 --> 01:13:35,210
we're using these these big eye

1778
01:13:39,220 --> 01:13:36,860
binoculars to see these little white

1779
01:13:40,870 --> 01:13:39,230
specks off in the distance those white

1780
01:13:43,330 --> 01:13:40,880
specks I'm afraid to say might have

1781
01:13:44,770 --> 01:13:43,340
actually been seagulls people take all

1782
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:44,780
these things and they say oh there's all

1783
01:13:48,250 --> 01:13:45,890
these people having all these different

1784
01:13:51,030 --> 01:13:48,260
sightings and that means that there

1785
01:13:54,310 --> 01:13:51,040
definitely was something going on Oh

1786
01:13:55,510 --> 01:13:54,320
does it really mean from what ie from

1787
01:13:57,160 --> 01:13:55,520
what I understand there were three

1788
01:13:58,600 --> 01:13:57,170
different incidents is that correct one

1789
01:14:01,450 --> 01:13:58,610
on the East Coast one on the west coast

1790
01:14:03,340 --> 01:14:01,460
and no two on the west coast and one on

1791
01:14:05,590 --> 01:14:03,350
the East Coast right there is basically

1792
01:14:10,210 --> 01:14:05,600
two incidents those the the nimitz

1793
01:14:11,080 --> 01:14:10,220
incident which happened in 2003 or

1794
01:14:13,180 --> 01:14:11,090
something like that

1795
01:14:14,770 --> 01:14:13,190
quite a while ago and then there's a

1796
01:14:16,630 --> 01:14:14,780
more recent one which happened on the

1797
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:16,640
East Coast which has two videos called

1798
01:14:21,010 --> 01:14:18,770
the the go-fast video and the gimbal

1799
01:14:22,840 --> 01:14:21,020
video we should be shot within minutes

1800
01:14:24,940 --> 01:14:22,850
of each other and from the same plane

1801
01:14:26,920 --> 01:14:24,950
with the same people and they just

1802
01:14:28,630 --> 01:14:26,930
showed two different unidentified

1803
01:14:29,860 --> 01:14:28,640
objects that they picked up using the

1804
01:14:33,250 --> 01:14:29,870
Fleur system they're forward-looking

1805
01:14:35,020 --> 01:14:33,260
infrared camera the second incident the

1806
01:14:38,200 --> 01:14:35,030
later incident has a different set of

1807
01:14:39,700 --> 01:14:38,210
people entirely and originally it was

1808
01:14:41,170 --> 01:14:39,710
just these two videos but I think some

1809
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:41,180
guys have stepped forward and said oh

1810
01:14:46,810 --> 01:14:43,970
yeah we occasionally see these weird

1811
01:14:48,820 --> 01:14:46,820
flying objects and they have some

1812
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:48,830
various accounts of them but the main

1813
01:14:51,430 --> 01:14:50,000
one people are interested in is the

1814
01:14:53,230 --> 01:14:51,440
nimitz incident because there's so many

1815
01:14:55,120 --> 01:14:53,240
different people have come out to

1816
01:14:57,430 --> 01:14:55,130
discuss what they saw or what they heard

1817
01:14:58,810 --> 01:14:57,440
or what it's not on the radar or you

1818
01:15:02,080 --> 01:14:58,820
know some people like say they saw the

1819
01:15:03,010 --> 01:15:02,090
original video and it's more detailed so

1820
01:15:04,990 --> 01:15:03,020
there's a lot more people can be

1821
01:15:06,780 --> 01:15:05,000
involved in that one something I've been

1822
01:15:10,180 --> 01:15:06,790
talking about and that's what the

1823
01:15:12,100 --> 01:15:10,190
tic-tac actually is yeah I took that

1824
01:15:17,410 --> 01:15:12,110
model it's a cute little I gotta make

1825
01:15:20,020 --> 01:15:17,420
more of those is a serious function in

1826
01:15:22,570 --> 01:15:20,030
that I can use it to test our hypotheses

1827
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:22,580
for what does something look like on

1828
01:15:24,820 --> 01:15:23,570
video Wilson

1829
01:15:27,100 --> 01:15:24,830
thing that shaped like this actually

1830
01:15:30,550 --> 01:15:27,110
creates the shapes that we can see on

1831
01:15:33,340 --> 01:15:30,560
the actual video but yes yeah my ear

1832
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:33,350
Emmett III I do have a fuller camera

1833
01:15:36,850 --> 01:15:35,210
it's on my desk somewhere down but it's

1834
01:15:38,440 --> 01:15:36,860
not a very high resolution one and it's

1835
01:15:40,450 --> 01:15:38,450
not actually the same wavelength so it

1836
01:15:42,940 --> 01:15:40,460
doesn't actually create the same thing

1837
01:15:44,230 --> 01:15:42,950
however a lot of that video from the

1838
01:15:48,970 --> 01:15:44,240
nimitz encounter is actually in

1839
01:15:51,190 --> 01:15:48,980
invisible light oh yes signature no it's

1840
01:15:54,580 --> 01:15:51,200
just it's just it's the actual object

1841
01:15:56,860 --> 01:15:54,590
itself that you are see okay it's only

1842
01:15:57,730 --> 01:15:56,870
black which means that it's backlit

1843
01:16:00,280 --> 01:15:57,740
which means all you're seeing

1844
01:16:02,200 --> 01:16:00,290
essentially is the shape of the object

1845
01:16:04,150 --> 01:16:02,210
and it's really fuzzy which means it's

1846
01:16:08,380 --> 01:16:04,160
out of focus but because it's so so far

1847
01:16:11,680 --> 01:16:08,390
away so so I can I can actually

1848
01:16:13,690 --> 01:16:11,690
replicate the conditions using a scale

1849
01:16:16,810 --> 01:16:13,700
model this is a reasonable sale scale

1850
01:16:18,880 --> 01:16:16,820
what I used to use my my iPhone earbud

1851
01:16:21,010 --> 01:16:18,890
case and before then I was actually

1852
01:16:22,690 --> 01:16:21,020
using a real tic-tac which which is a

1853
01:16:24,730 --> 01:16:22,700
bit impractical because it's you know

1854
01:16:25,960 --> 01:16:24,740
it's that's not big but yeah it's I'm

1855
01:16:27,190 --> 01:16:25,970
going discussion hopefully I'm going to

1856
01:16:29,670 --> 01:16:27,200
speak to some of the people who were

1857
01:16:33,340 --> 01:16:29,680
involved at some point and maybe we can

1858
01:16:35,350 --> 01:16:33,350
reach some common ground yeah what do

1859
01:16:36,880 --> 01:16:35,360
you like I mean you what you want to get

1860
01:16:39,190 --> 01:16:36,890
to the truth that's that's basically the

1861
01:16:47,230 --> 01:16:39,200
point yeah I guess lutely yet like what

1862
01:16:51,580 --> 01:16:47,240
is the truth and and if am I gonna put

1863
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:51,590
this if like like the Navy coming out

1864
01:16:56,740 --> 01:16:54,890
and basically saying that yeah these

1865
01:16:59,290 --> 01:16:56,750
videos are real and and and it's

1866
01:17:01,000 --> 01:16:59,300
unidentified and it's and that's that's

1867
01:17:04,870 --> 01:17:01,010
all there is to it

1868
01:17:06,790 --> 01:17:04,880
you feel that it it makes the case more

1869
01:17:08,470 --> 01:17:06,800
serious in a way I've always assumed

1870
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:08,480
that the videos were real and that they

1871
01:17:13,690 --> 01:17:11,330
show some unidentified object and they

1872
01:17:15,280 --> 01:17:13,700
show little black dots how can you

1873
01:17:18,370 --> 01:17:15,290
identify there's no way of identifying

1874
01:17:20,110 --> 01:17:18,380
it from those videos and people said

1875
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:20,120
that the videos were hoaxed or faked by

1876
01:17:24,310 --> 01:17:22,400
you know I never saw any indication of

1877
01:17:26,410 --> 01:17:24,320
that before and I always worked with the

1878
01:17:29,590 --> 01:17:26,420
assumption from the very start when the

1879
01:17:30,670 --> 01:17:29,600
videos came out and well that the the

1880
01:17:32,170 --> 01:17:30,680
pneumix when I've been out for a long

1881
01:17:34,300 --> 01:17:32,180
time but the other two came out in

1882
01:17:36,370 --> 01:17:34,310
December 2017 from the very start I was

1883
01:17:37,419 --> 01:17:36,380
analyzing them as if they were genuine

1884
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:37,429
video shot

1885
01:17:43,510 --> 01:17:41,600
a navy Navy plane with real pilots and

1886
01:17:44,979 --> 01:17:43,520
real objects you know that wasn't that

1887
01:17:48,490 --> 01:17:44,989
changed nothing to me either

1888
01:17:51,669 --> 01:17:48,500
but then people take this this the Navy

1889
01:17:54,040 --> 01:17:51,679
says the videos are real as if it means

1890
01:17:56,290 --> 01:17:54,050
the Navy says that alien space yeah

1891
01:17:59,140 --> 01:17:56,300
after real yeah which is a bit of a leap

1892
01:18:01,870 --> 01:17:59,150
all it means is that Oh a pilot in a

1893
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:01,880
navy plane shot this video yeah that's

1894
01:18:05,530 --> 01:18:03,050
all it means that we couldn't identify

1895
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:05,540
this thing it's long as you couldn't

1896
01:18:09,250 --> 01:18:07,040
identify this thing because it was tiny

1897
01:18:11,169 --> 01:18:09,260
I mean you can't identify everything

1898
01:18:12,850 --> 01:18:11,179
that's on the table behind me because

1899
01:18:15,220 --> 01:18:12,860
it's it's just too small to see it's

1900
01:18:16,959 --> 01:18:15,230
just too far away if it's big enough can

1901
01:18:19,810 --> 01:18:16,969
identify it I can bring things closer

1902
01:18:22,840 --> 01:18:19,820
you can identify it you got this typical

1903
01:18:25,000 --> 01:18:22,850
low information situation for all UFOs

1904
01:18:26,080 --> 01:18:25,010
where you you can't identify them and

1905
01:18:27,970 --> 01:18:26,090
they remain unidentified

1906
01:18:29,410 --> 01:18:27,980
not because they're weird shapes or

1907
01:18:31,770 --> 01:18:29,420
anything like that but because they're

1908
01:18:34,750 --> 01:18:31,780
too far away

1909
01:18:37,240 --> 01:18:34,760
it's a have you heard of a group called

1910
01:18:39,399 --> 01:18:37,250
the disclosure project and a character

1911
01:18:39,970 --> 01:18:39,409
called Steven Greer oh yeah yeah I've

1912
01:18:41,260 --> 01:18:39,980
heard of them

1913
01:18:43,330 --> 01:18:41,270
I haven't looked into you too much I

1914
01:18:46,419 --> 01:18:43,340
think I watched the presentation that

1915
01:18:49,140 --> 01:18:46,429
they did where they had a bunch of old

1916
01:18:52,750 --> 01:18:49,150
men old men for want of a better retired

1917
01:18:55,120 --> 01:18:52,760
government and military officials who

1918
01:18:57,550 --> 01:18:55,130
stood up and said I saw a light outside

1919
01:18:59,919 --> 01:18:57,560
a nuclear silo and things like that and

1920
01:19:01,419 --> 01:18:59,929
this went on for some time and you know

1921
01:19:03,850 --> 01:19:01,429
it seemed like it was a big weight of

1922
01:19:08,110 --> 01:19:03,860
evidence there that there were commonly

1923
01:19:11,979 --> 01:19:08,120
mysterious craft buzzing various places

1924
01:19:13,090 --> 01:19:11,989
and sneer gear say this was but then you

1925
01:19:14,830 --> 01:19:13,100
look at some of the other stuff the gear

1926
01:19:17,770 --> 01:19:14,840
puts out like he I think he posted a

1927
01:19:19,780 --> 01:19:17,780
picture of a campfire he and there was

1928
01:19:21,669 --> 01:19:19,790
like a silhouette or something sat in

1929
01:19:23,470 --> 01:19:21,679
one of the chairs around the campfire

1930
01:19:26,229 --> 01:19:23,480
and it's just like you're ridiculous

1931
01:19:27,939 --> 01:19:26,239
nonsense so you don't really make it

1932
01:19:29,740 --> 01:19:27,949
seem I mentioned trust is older stuff

1933
01:19:32,050 --> 01:19:29,750
either I don't know if I told you but I

1934
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:32,060
was very involved with that group of

1935
01:19:37,120 --> 01:19:35,570
people I traveled to the yeah I talk

1936
01:19:40,780 --> 01:19:37,130
about this in the previous podcast in a

1937
01:19:43,360 --> 01:19:40,790
way I'm wearing two UFOs yeah and

1938
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:43,370
popsicles heck with them basically we

1939
01:19:48,580 --> 01:19:45,290
were going out doing these meditations

1940
01:19:50,830 --> 01:19:48,590
with Steven gray and it was it was

1941
01:19:51,219 --> 01:19:50,840
basically a cult it really was it was a

1942
01:19:56,799 --> 01:19:51,229
call

1943
01:19:58,209 --> 01:19:56,809
but interesting he um he put out a was

1944
01:20:01,899 --> 01:19:58,219
something that he was worried about

1945
01:20:03,819 --> 01:20:01,909
Stephen gray he put out this he also did

1946
01:20:06,729 --> 01:20:03,829
it during the press conference in 2001

1947
01:20:08,080 --> 01:20:06,739
where he what he's worried about is that

1948
01:20:10,479 --> 01:20:08,090
this is going to end up in military

1949
01:20:12,810 --> 01:20:10,489
hands and that the whole topic is going

1950
01:20:16,089 --> 01:20:12,820
to be basically put into a militarized

1951
01:20:19,660 --> 01:20:16,099
perspective and then I went on History

1952
01:20:22,229 --> 01:20:19,670
Channel and I watched this new blink-182

1953
01:20:27,879 --> 01:20:26,020
Tom DeLonge and this Starlite

1954
01:20:30,129 --> 01:20:27,889
organization and everything and that

1955
01:20:33,339 --> 01:20:30,139
there it's full of former military

1956
01:20:36,759 --> 01:20:33,349
people and Pentagon officials and

1957
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:36,769
they're going around investigating this

1958
01:20:41,350 --> 01:20:38,690
subject in the wrong way

1959
01:20:43,899 --> 01:20:41,360
trying to get witnesses allegedly

1960
01:20:48,430 --> 01:20:43,909
material and all this stuff but it's

1961
01:20:52,390 --> 01:20:48,440
only a group of military people and the

1962
01:20:54,459 --> 01:20:52,400
whole TV series is the putting on this

1963
01:20:58,169 --> 01:20:54,469
music of course that is really hyped up

1964
01:21:02,500 --> 01:20:58,179
and it's exciting and intense and it's

1965
01:21:05,680 --> 01:21:02,510
spooky and the whole language with with

1966
01:21:07,989 --> 01:21:05,690
with in the TV series and the way that

1967
01:21:10,689 --> 01:21:07,999
they're talking about this subject is as

1968
01:21:14,500 --> 01:21:10,699
if it's the question of a threat the

1969
01:21:17,879 --> 01:21:14,510
question of intent and the possibility

1970
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:17,889
that they can have with this technology

1971
01:21:24,479 --> 01:21:22,010
if if they are here if you know ETS and

1972
01:21:28,089 --> 01:21:24,489
what what they want to do with us and

1973
01:21:31,629 --> 01:21:28,099
they are communicating this nimitz

1974
01:21:34,689 --> 01:21:31,639
incident as if it was a way of

1975
01:21:39,040 --> 01:21:34,699
demonstrating technology from their side

1976
01:21:41,830 --> 01:21:39,050
and what they're capable of as in a kind

1977
01:21:43,750 --> 01:21:41,840
of a threatening behavior and I'm I have

1978
01:21:47,199 --> 01:21:43,760
to say I'm really worried that this is

1979
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:47,209
being shown in this way but it's being

1980
01:21:54,969 --> 01:21:52,010
presented in the spooky kind of

1981
01:21:58,149 --> 01:21:54,979
militaristic sense and that this has

1982
01:22:00,669 --> 01:21:58,159
been left to military people I think

1983
01:22:02,589 --> 01:22:00,679
that's the last people who should have

1984
01:22:03,669 --> 01:22:02,599
this issue I'm not sure if I have the

1985
01:22:05,830 --> 01:22:03,679
same

1986
01:22:09,010 --> 01:22:05,840
so that when I look at the to the start

1987
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:09,020
Academy this is obviously the one

1988
01:22:12,939 --> 01:22:10,610
military guy Lou

1989
01:22:14,820 --> 01:22:12,949
Elizondo he was military but he was

1990
01:22:19,270 --> 01:22:14,830
involved in I think like something like

1991
01:22:21,790 --> 01:22:19,280
bodyguard details and classifying

1992
01:22:23,050 --> 01:22:21,800
documents I mean he wasn't like a secret

1993
01:22:25,930 --> 01:22:23,060
agent or something like that he wasn't

1994
01:22:28,899 --> 01:22:25,940
like you know Navy SEAL only he was like

1995
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:28,909
a long time ago but yeah he is basically

1996
01:22:34,450 --> 01:22:31,010
a bureaucrat and then you have Chris

1997
01:22:37,930 --> 01:22:34,460
Mellon assistant to the assistant deputy

1998
01:22:38,530 --> 01:22:37,940
secretary for defense which sounds very

1999
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:38,540
impressive

2000
01:22:43,360 --> 01:22:41,690
but it's yeah yeah down is really down

2001
01:22:46,860 --> 01:22:43,370
the hierarchy there's lots of assistant

2002
01:22:49,060 --> 01:22:46,870
secretaries assistant deputy secretaries

2003
01:22:52,780 --> 01:22:49,070
he's the government guy he's not really

2004
01:22:56,709 --> 01:22:52,790
a military guy and you've got Washington

2005
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:56,719
named justice Steve just Asst he outside

2006
01:23:01,570 --> 01:22:59,600
I believe at Lockheed Martin headed over

2007
01:23:03,760 --> 01:23:01,580
scope works thank you said luck I think

2008
01:23:08,020 --> 01:23:03,770
he's luck he's not in military you know

2009
01:23:09,669 --> 01:23:08,030
military industrial company and again

2010
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:09,679
he's not really military he's an

2011
01:23:15,580 --> 01:23:13,730
engineer and an engineering manager for

2012
01:23:17,590 --> 01:23:15,590
the last like 20 years or so he managed

2013
01:23:19,290 --> 01:23:17,600
teams of people he's an engineer he's

2014
01:23:22,600 --> 01:23:19,300
got patents and things he's a clever guy

2015
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:22,610
and you've got help it off who's not

2016
01:23:26,830 --> 01:23:24,650
military at all unless he did some kind

2017
01:23:30,399 --> 01:23:26,840
of national service a long time ago he's

2018
01:23:33,220 --> 01:23:30,409
a former Scientologists and you know a

2019
01:23:35,979 --> 01:23:33,230
big can I really yeah yeah a long time

2020
01:23:38,169 --> 01:23:35,989
ago he I think he left in the seventies

2021
01:23:40,870 --> 01:23:38,179
he's a guy who basically works in or

2022
01:23:42,850 --> 01:23:40,880
alternative science like theorizing

2023
01:23:45,459 --> 01:23:42,860
about war crimes and things like that

2024
01:23:48,100 --> 01:23:45,469
and he's doing very interested in UFOs

2025
01:23:49,600 --> 01:23:48,110
and there's some other people whose

2026
01:23:50,890 --> 01:23:49,610
names I don't remember but it's not I

2027
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:50,900
don't really see it as being

2028
01:23:54,729 --> 01:23:53,570
particularly this militaristic thing you

2029
01:23:58,450 --> 01:23:54,739
know they do have these connections to

2030
01:24:01,660 --> 01:23:58,460
the military they they just his he's

2031
01:24:03,490 --> 01:24:01,670
headed by a rock star yeah long from

2032
01:24:04,990 --> 01:24:03,500
blink 182 so that's not military at all

2033
01:24:07,990 --> 01:24:05,000
that you could say that's just some kind

2034
01:24:09,790 --> 01:24:08,000
of shield then they had this recent

2035
01:24:10,780 --> 01:24:09,800
thing where they they signed this I

2036
01:24:12,419 --> 01:24:10,790
think it's called a CRADA

2037
01:24:14,680 --> 01:24:12,429
that's kind of a common research

2038
01:24:16,930 --> 01:24:14,690
application development agreement or

2039
01:24:19,180 --> 01:24:16,940
something either with the earth

2040
01:24:21,700 --> 01:24:19,190
with with the army not the other the

2041
01:24:25,030 --> 01:24:21,710
army okay yes and not just the army

2042
01:24:29,470 --> 01:24:25,040
specifically ground vehicles within the

2043
01:24:31,630 --> 01:24:29,480
army well you think like you but they've

2044
01:24:34,930 --> 01:24:31,640
got UFO technology why are they

2045
01:24:38,370 --> 01:24:34,940
researching it for ground vehicles yeah

2046
01:24:41,530 --> 01:24:38,380
and I think what it actually is is that

2047
01:24:43,420 --> 01:24:41,540
the to the Stars Academy the Tom

2048
01:24:46,060 --> 01:24:43,430
DeLong's company which has all these

2049
01:24:48,280 --> 01:24:46,070
people in it they they figured out the

2050
01:24:49,630 --> 01:24:48,290
way to get into the military was to

2051
01:24:51,580 --> 01:24:49,640
assign one of these these cried

2052
01:24:53,979 --> 01:24:51,590
agreements and the way they figured out

2053
01:24:55,450 --> 01:24:53,989
and doing it was to first of all signed

2054
01:24:58,450 --> 01:24:55,460
a partnership agreement with this other

2055
01:25:00,070 --> 01:24:58,460
company trooper global true cleared

2056
01:25:01,510 --> 01:25:00,080
global as to named this company so the

2057
01:25:04,330 --> 01:25:01,520
to the Stars Academy signs that with

2058
01:25:06,100 --> 01:25:04,340
true clear global truth to Klug Global's

2059
01:25:10,030 --> 01:25:06,110
thing is they they're in advertising

2060
01:25:11,800 --> 01:25:10,040
display company they make projectors and

2061
01:25:13,209 --> 01:25:11,810
screens that people come like project

2062
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:13,219
things onto the sides of buildings or

2063
01:25:18,700 --> 01:25:16,370
onto screens and things yeah the

2064
01:25:22,420 --> 01:25:18,710
military is interested in what they call

2065
01:25:26,170 --> 01:25:22,430
active camouflage which means in this

2066
01:25:28,450 --> 01:25:26,180
context sometimes projecting images of

2067
01:25:29,920 --> 01:25:28,460
things in front of other things and

2068
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:29,930
making it look like they're not there

2069
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:32,330
I say you're a desert you project an

2070
01:25:35,770 --> 01:25:34,250
image of the sky behind tank onto a

2071
01:25:37,930 --> 01:25:35,780
screen in front of the tank and it makes

2072
01:25:40,930 --> 01:25:37,940
it look like that they're not there no

2073
01:25:42,939 --> 01:25:40,940
true clear global has this technology

2074
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:42,949
and they were just this this little

2075
01:25:47,140 --> 01:25:44,719
advertising projection company they

2076
01:25:49,060 --> 01:25:47,150
wanted to get into the military somebody

2077
01:25:51,520 --> 01:25:49,070
knows somebody and they say oh Tom

2078
01:25:53,200 --> 01:25:51,530
DeLonge you know has this Lou Elizondo

2079
01:25:55,840 --> 01:25:53,210
has some contacts in the Pentagon still

2080
01:25:58,750 --> 01:25:55,850
if so we can sign up with two stars

2081
01:26:01,120 --> 01:25:58,760
Academy and then who use his contacts

2082
01:26:03,580 --> 01:26:01,130
just sign this krodha so that the

2083
01:26:04,990 --> 01:26:03,590
military can get this yes active

2084
01:26:06,459 --> 01:26:05,000
camouflage stuff that they're interested

2085
01:26:08,979 --> 01:26:06,469
in which is basically just fancy

2086
01:26:11,740 --> 01:26:08,989
projection screens and yeah icon this

2087
01:26:13,330 --> 01:26:11,750
stuff about analyzing materials onto

2088
01:26:16,570 --> 01:26:13,340
this crud er which gives us access

2089
01:26:17,709 --> 01:26:16,580
government labs and so I think that's

2090
01:26:19,600 --> 01:26:17,719
pretty much what happened I don't think

2091
01:26:22,330 --> 01:26:19,610
the military is really expecting that

2092
01:26:24,100 --> 01:26:22,340
people sending in random bits of metal

2093
01:26:26,050 --> 01:26:24,110
they found on the roadside after they

2094
01:26:29,169 --> 01:26:26,060
think they saw a UFO is really going to

2095
01:26:30,729 --> 01:26:29,179
go anywhere right really interested in

2096
01:26:32,500 --> 01:26:30,739
is just this active

2097
01:26:34,149 --> 01:26:32,510
life's tough and if something comes out

2098
01:26:36,549 --> 01:26:34,159
of the the other stuff that would be

2099
01:26:40,479 --> 01:26:36,559
great but it's not really like the main

2100
01:26:43,149 --> 01:26:40,489
focus so okay it feels like from the

2101
01:26:45,879 --> 01:26:43,159
outside there's this big big thing going

2102
01:26:47,729 --> 01:26:45,889
on like there's this company disclosing

2103
01:26:50,410 --> 01:26:47,739
UFO technology and they've got this

2104
01:26:53,109 --> 01:26:50,420
secret agreement to work with the Army

2105
01:26:55,390 --> 01:26:53,119
in their labs but really the you could

2106
01:26:57,399 --> 01:26:55,400
look into it it doesn't really seem to

2107
01:27:00,009 --> 01:26:57,409
be that much there there's not really

2108
01:27:01,390 --> 01:27:00,019
very much going on military why's there

2109
01:27:06,060 --> 01:27:01,400
there's no real connections to the

2110
01:27:08,709 --> 01:27:06,070
military it's just like oh yeah I'm sure

2111
01:27:10,299 --> 01:27:08,719
maybe there is you know like you said

2112
01:27:11,950 --> 01:27:10,309
earlier like we can't rule things out a

2113
01:27:13,839 --> 01:27:11,960
hundred percent see maybe this is all

2114
01:27:16,629 --> 01:27:13,849
part of some great plot to disclose

2115
01:27:18,939 --> 01:27:16,639
things in a very strange way by first of

2116
01:27:21,069 --> 01:27:18,949
all softening up the public by having

2117
01:27:22,600 --> 01:27:21,079
Tom DeLonge explain things and then the

2118
01:27:24,279 --> 01:27:22,610
aliens will sell off their ship on to

2119
01:27:27,549 --> 01:27:24,289
the White House lawn in a few years time

2120
01:27:30,430 --> 01:27:27,559
I think no I think it's just a bunch of

2121
01:27:31,989 --> 01:27:30,440
guys who are interested in UFOs who

2122
01:27:34,089 --> 01:27:31,999
found themselves in various positions

2123
01:27:36,279 --> 01:27:34,099
and then they got together and they

2124
01:27:38,140 --> 01:27:36,289
thought well let's let's do some more

2125
01:27:40,839 --> 01:27:38,150
UFO stuff it's cool I really am really

2126
01:27:44,169 --> 01:27:40,849
into UFOs Harry Reid a big politician in

2127
01:27:47,859 --> 01:27:44,179
the US for Masada his form of a house

2128
01:27:50,020 --> 01:27:47,869
Majority Leader leader in the house yeah

2129
01:27:51,819 --> 01:27:50,030
so it's like you know he you think he

2130
01:27:54,279 --> 01:27:51,829
would already know if there was a lian's

2131
01:27:55,810 --> 01:27:54,289
up there because he has access to the

2132
01:27:57,160 --> 01:27:55,820
military because he's like the leader of

2133
01:27:59,859 --> 01:27:57,170
the house thing of this leader of the

2134
01:28:01,450 --> 01:27:59,869
Senate I believe if you don't have

2135
01:28:03,100 --> 01:28:01,460
access to all these committees that we

2136
01:28:05,439 --> 01:28:03,110
should know this this secret stuff and

2137
01:28:06,790 --> 01:28:05,449
yeah he's here's his funneling 25

2138
01:28:09,910 --> 01:28:06,800
million dollars to his friends company

2139
01:28:13,390 --> 01:28:09,920
to investigate UFOs this way just cuz

2140
01:28:16,750 --> 01:28:13,400
it's a UFO family yeah yeah yeah but do

2141
01:28:19,750 --> 01:28:16,760
you think regardless of this this human

2142
01:28:21,700 --> 01:28:19,760
behavior in in within these communities

2143
01:28:23,259 --> 01:28:21,710
and groups do you think they're do you

2144
01:28:26,830 --> 01:28:23,269
think it's likely that we are being

2145
01:28:31,359 --> 01:28:26,840
visited now no I don't think it's my

2146
01:28:33,370 --> 01:28:31,369
plane I think the evidence for visitors

2147
01:28:35,919 --> 01:28:33,380
is very sketchy if you look at all the

2148
01:28:37,959 --> 01:28:35,929
things that people say and attribute to

2149
01:28:38,830 --> 01:28:37,969
alien visitations they're all over the

2150
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:38,840
net there's all kinds of different

2151
01:28:43,629 --> 01:28:41,570
things going on if you think like how

2152
01:28:46,839 --> 01:28:43,639
could aliens get here let's go

2153
01:28:48,879 --> 01:28:46,849
problem like you know it's yeah yeah

2154
01:28:49,899 --> 01:28:48,889
they're gonna they're gonna make maybe

2155
01:28:51,759 --> 01:28:49,909
they've got faster-than-light

2156
01:28:53,350 --> 01:28:51,769
teleportation things maybe I can just

2157
01:28:55,689 --> 01:28:53,360
zip around the universe but you know we

2158
01:28:58,149 --> 01:28:55,699
have no evidence of that so we could

2159
01:29:00,520 --> 01:28:58,159
hypothesize all kinds of magical type

2160
01:29:01,959 --> 01:29:00,530
things that might explain lights in the

2161
01:29:03,549 --> 01:29:01,969
sky but you know why not just say

2162
01:29:05,770 --> 01:29:03,559
they're just lights in the sky and

2163
01:29:07,839 --> 01:29:05,780
mistaken them for something else saying

2164
01:29:09,399 --> 01:29:07,849
we see lights in the sky and we heard

2165
01:29:11,379 --> 01:29:09,409
people being abducted from the bedrooms

2166
01:29:12,639 --> 01:29:11,389
does that mean that aliens are visiting

2167
01:29:15,699 --> 01:29:12,649
us or is there a more prosaic

2168
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:15,709
explanation here it's possible the

2169
01:29:20,159 --> 01:29:17,449
aliens are visiting is but I don't

2170
01:29:23,739 --> 01:29:20,169
really see any very compelling evidence

2171
01:29:25,870 --> 01:29:23,749
that aliens are visiting us now I know

2172
01:29:28,209 --> 01:29:25,880
other people like you for example will

2173
01:29:30,549 --> 01:29:28,219
probably think there is more compelling

2174
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:30,559
evidence than than me because I you know

2175
01:29:33,790 --> 01:29:31,130
I just

2176
01:29:35,949 --> 01:29:33,800
perhaps tends to gravitate towards the

2177
01:29:38,979 --> 01:29:35,959
mundane explanation of things which may

2178
01:29:41,169 --> 01:29:38,989
be failing on my part but I think it's

2179
01:29:44,319 --> 01:29:41,179
kind of based on my experience and that

2180
01:29:48,040 --> 01:29:44,329
whenever I look into things they tend to

2181
01:29:49,839 --> 01:29:48,050
the magic falls away they tend to have a

2182
01:29:51,759 --> 01:29:49,849
mundane explanation someone shows the

2183
01:29:53,679 --> 01:29:51,769
picture of ghosts they tend to be not

2184
01:29:54,909 --> 01:29:53,689
bitter of ghosts there's a recent

2185
01:29:56,770 --> 01:29:54,919
there's a thing in the States right now

2186
01:29:59,319 --> 01:29:56,780
where there's people are saying that

2187
01:30:00,209 --> 01:29:59,329
there's a drone swarms going on over I

2188
01:30:03,850 --> 01:30:00,219
think

2189
01:30:06,339 --> 01:30:03,860
Colorado and Oklahoma yeah the middle of

2190
01:30:08,979 --> 01:30:06,349
the middle of the country states and

2191
01:30:10,689 --> 01:30:08,989
then they say oh we saw all this stuff

2192
01:30:12,370 --> 01:30:10,699
and there's thousands of reports the FAA

2193
01:30:13,870 --> 01:30:12,380
is looking into it the FBI is looking

2194
01:30:15,810 --> 01:30:13,880
into it the Sheriff's Department's

2195
01:30:17,949 --> 01:30:15,820
looking into it then the showing videos

2196
01:30:20,109 --> 01:30:17,959
it's like a shaky video of a like a

2197
01:30:21,969 --> 01:30:20,119
light somewhere and like there's one guy

2198
01:30:23,259 --> 01:30:21,979
driving at 70 miles an hour along the

2199
01:30:25,509 --> 01:30:23,269
road chasing a light on the horizon

2200
01:30:27,639 --> 01:30:25,519
which just happens to be where where

2201
01:30:30,009 --> 01:30:27,649
Venus usually is at the time of the

2202
01:30:32,589 --> 01:30:30,019
evening here's some other videos of

2203
01:30:35,109 --> 01:30:32,599
Lights which look exactly like buildings

2204
01:30:37,959 --> 01:30:35,119
on the horizon then there's a photo of

2205
01:30:40,389 --> 01:30:37,969
some lights which which is verifiably is

2206
01:30:42,339 --> 01:30:40,399
a plane even though it looks a bit weird

2207
01:30:44,139 --> 01:30:42,349
because it's where those those where

2208
01:30:45,310 --> 01:30:44,149
there the red central light lights of

2209
01:30:47,229 --> 01:30:45,320
the engine so it looks like you've got

2210
01:30:50,109 --> 01:30:47,239
these kind of weird things on either

2211
01:30:51,699 --> 01:30:50,119
side of this red light which looks like

2212
01:30:53,709 --> 01:30:51,709
some kind of TIE fighter or something

2213
01:30:55,419 --> 01:30:53,719
but yeah it is definitely a plane and

2214
01:30:56,840 --> 01:30:55,429
yet the media is saying this is part of

2215
01:30:59,210 --> 01:30:56,850
the new

2216
01:31:01,040 --> 01:30:59,220
region of the United States so you look

2217
01:31:04,430 --> 01:31:01,050
at I look into these things in my

2218
01:31:05,960 --> 01:31:04,440
experience the magic falls away and your

2219
01:31:08,330 --> 01:31:05,970
life is something that's mundane and so

2220
01:31:10,700 --> 01:31:08,340
I tend to gravitate towards that being

2221
01:31:12,710 --> 01:31:10,710
the default explanation after years and

2222
01:31:15,530 --> 01:31:12,720
years would be actually being the actual

2223
01:31:17,000 --> 01:31:15,540
explanation understandably so but I do

2224
01:31:23,900 --> 01:31:17,010
think that one day there will be an

2225
01:31:26,840 --> 01:31:23,910
exception so be great but have you

2226
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:26,850
checked out the work of J Allen Hynek

2227
01:31:31,760 --> 01:31:29,250
the astronomer employed in the project

2228
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:31,770
Bluebook no I really haven't

2229
01:31:37,820 --> 01:31:34,170
and people keep bringing him up but I

2230
01:31:41,690 --> 01:31:37,830
think I tended to shy away from the old

2231
01:31:43,670 --> 01:31:41,700
older stuff because it tends to not be

2232
01:31:45,440 --> 01:31:43,680
very interesting when you look into it

2233
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:45,450
there isn't really very much there you

2234
01:31:50,030 --> 01:31:47,850
get these accounts that people go on and

2235
01:31:52,610 --> 01:31:50,040
on and on about about like you know some

2236
01:31:54,620 --> 01:31:52,620
guy stops by the side of the road and

2237
01:31:58,070 --> 01:31:54,630
his car got dented and he had these

2238
01:32:08,750 --> 01:31:58,080
burns on his chest or whatever of

2239
01:32:10,220 --> 01:32:08,760
generalisation actual case I mean it's

2240
01:32:11,450 --> 01:32:10,230
been it's been my experience that

2241
01:32:15,020 --> 01:32:11,460
because it's old

2242
01:32:17,570 --> 01:32:15,030
they don't have photographs and you the

2243
01:32:20,240 --> 01:32:17,580
people are often dead by now and so

2244
01:32:22,040 --> 01:32:20,250
you're left with essentially stories

2245
01:32:23,270 --> 01:32:22,050
from the past and what are you gonna do

2246
01:32:26,300 --> 01:32:23,280
with it and this is like an an

2247
01:32:29,180 --> 01:32:26,310
eyewitness who's dead what do we do with

2248
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:29,190
this is the story that he says what 4050

2249
01:32:34,250 --> 01:32:32,010
years ago right I can okay it can be

2250
01:32:36,860 --> 01:32:34,260
hard to take it anywhere because it's so

2251
01:32:39,230 --> 01:32:36,870
long ago I totally see that but when you

2252
01:32:41,420 --> 01:32:39,240
have for example again like a guy like

2253
01:32:44,120 --> 01:32:41,430
Hynek who was employed to basically

2254
01:32:45,830 --> 01:32:44,130
debunk and and be skeptic of UFO

2255
01:32:49,250 --> 01:32:45,840
incidents and employed by the government

2256
01:32:52,730 --> 01:32:49,260
to do so and later than coming out

2257
01:32:56,990 --> 01:32:52,740
saying that this was actually a

2258
01:33:00,470 --> 01:32:57,000
government sort of plot to calm the

2259
01:33:02,450 --> 01:33:00,480
public down and that the observations

2260
01:33:04,340 --> 01:33:02,460
and what was being seen in the skies all

2261
01:33:06,920 --> 01:33:04,350
across the u.s. at that time the UFO

2262
01:33:10,280 --> 01:33:06,930
waves and all that that many of the

2263
01:33:14,630 --> 01:33:13,010
in admissions from him completely

2264
01:33:18,350 --> 01:33:14,640
unexplainable and that the government

2265
01:33:20,270 --> 01:33:18,360
did tried to find a plausible

2266
01:33:21,800 --> 01:33:20,280
you know down-to-earth explanation just

2267
01:33:25,550 --> 01:33:21,810
to calm people down because there was

2268
01:33:29,150 --> 01:33:25,560
hysterical tendencies back then but he

2269
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:29,160
saw it as if you read his books is and

2270
01:33:34,370 --> 01:33:31,530
his testimony which I think carries just

2271
01:33:37,580 --> 01:33:34,380
as much weight today as it did back then

2272
01:33:39,890 --> 01:33:37,590
his experience as a transition from

2273
01:33:42,770 --> 01:33:39,900
working from the government being very

2274
01:33:45,229 --> 01:33:42,780
skeptical and very kind of in in his

2275
01:33:47,510 --> 01:33:45,239
words closed-minded previously as to

2276
01:33:50,270 --> 01:33:47,520
what these phenomenons were and then

2277
01:33:52,370 --> 01:33:50,280
moving into that that there is something

2278
01:33:54,530 --> 01:33:52,380
going on and saying that the government

2279
01:33:57,800 --> 01:33:54,540
has actually no clue as to what these

2280
01:34:00,410 --> 01:33:57,810
things are and they they are worried and

2281
01:34:03,590 --> 01:34:00,420
are having trouble understanding what's

2282
01:34:07,160 --> 01:34:03,600
going on and they what they needed him

2283
01:34:10,430 --> 01:34:07,170
for was basically just as a public face

2284
01:34:12,830 --> 01:34:10,440
for the public to identify with and feel

2285
01:34:15,710 --> 01:34:12,840
comforted by and so he could explain

2286
01:34:18,520 --> 01:34:15,720
away and he also talks about how the

2287
01:34:22,850 --> 01:34:18,530
government took the most easily

2288
01:34:25,310 --> 01:34:22,860
explainable cases debunked them and then

2289
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:25,320
presented it to the media but the

2290
01:34:30,200 --> 01:34:27,810
completely unexplainable ones were left

2291
01:34:34,190 --> 01:34:30,210
untouched and kind of left out of the

2292
01:34:36,020 --> 01:34:34,200
the discussions research and it's I

2293
01:34:39,830 --> 01:34:36,030
think you would find it really worth

2294
01:34:43,850 --> 01:34:39,840
looking into his his story of how the

2295
01:34:46,700 --> 01:34:43,860
government it is he still alive no he

2296
01:34:58,190 --> 01:34:46,710
died he died at sea he was an astronomer

2297
01:35:00,050 --> 01:34:58,200
and physicist and very very well he yeah

2298
01:35:02,890 --> 01:35:00,060
when he was talking about him like you

2299
01:35:05,540 --> 01:35:02,900
know you started out essentially

2300
01:35:07,460 --> 01:35:05,550
debunking these things you know a lot of

2301
01:35:08,990 --> 01:35:07,470
people who do get into strange beliefs

2302
01:35:10,610 --> 01:35:09,000
do actually say they start out trying to

2303
01:35:12,250 --> 01:35:10,620
debunk things obviously different with

2304
01:35:16,040 --> 01:35:12,260
his case because he has all this access

2305
01:35:18,560 --> 01:35:16,050
to information but there were these

2306
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:18,570
cases that were difficult to explain and

2307
01:35:23,810 --> 01:35:20,370
the government didn't present those to

2308
01:35:25,460 --> 01:35:23,820
people but did he then present those

2309
01:35:28,310 --> 01:35:25,470
in his book and explained what he

2310
01:35:30,350 --> 01:35:28,320
actually were not what

2311
01:35:33,110 --> 01:35:30,360
well no but what's what the evidence was

2312
01:35:36,620 --> 01:35:33,120
and it was it actually photos of craft

2313
01:35:38,990 --> 01:35:36,630
or was it like yes guy yes everything

2314
01:35:42,350 --> 01:35:39,000
forward he came out with what he had

2315
01:35:48,170 --> 01:35:42,360
left of data notes pictures even

2316
01:35:50,690 --> 01:35:48,180
videotapes basically just everything he

2317
01:35:51,020 --> 01:35:50,700
had that he had accumulated Prue project

2318
01:35:53,720 --> 01:35:51,030
Bluebook

2319
01:35:54,980 --> 01:35:53,730
well I probably should read him like for

2320
01:35:57,530 --> 01:35:54,990
the reasons we were just discussing that

2321
01:35:59,960 --> 01:35:57,540
it would be common ground for the the

2322
01:36:03,710 --> 01:35:59,970
UFO people okay I talked to a lot of UFO

2323
01:36:06,320 --> 01:36:03,720
people and they often bring up that um

2324
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:06,330
him Hynek and does he have more than one

2325
01:36:11,570 --> 01:36:08,010
Booker's I just have one famous bill

2326
01:36:14,540 --> 01:36:11,580
that he's worth probably 10 bucks okay

2327
01:36:19,280 --> 01:36:14,550
he also met with a scientist in France

2328
01:36:22,130 --> 01:36:19,290
called la who was the French government

2329
01:36:25,010 --> 01:36:22,140
and they they Co Co wrote some book

2330
01:36:28,310 --> 01:36:25,020
books together and and had conversations

2331
01:36:30,260 --> 01:36:28,320
about the phenomenon and what they they

2332
01:36:33,080 --> 01:36:30,270
theorized and make made a bunch of

2333
01:36:36,020 --> 01:36:33,090
hypotheses out from the data and it's

2334
01:36:38,480 --> 01:36:36,030
really interesting to to dig into it and

2335
01:36:40,040 --> 01:36:38,490
they're not giving it ultimate terms

2336
01:36:42,440 --> 01:36:40,050
they're not saying it's this or that

2337
01:36:45,080 --> 01:36:42,450
it's just what is going on and what is

2338
01:36:47,270 --> 01:36:45,090
where's the evidence pointing that they

2339
01:36:50,150 --> 01:36:47,280
had a bit I think if I do continue with

2340
01:36:54,110 --> 01:36:50,160
the UFO stuff and I do have experiments

2341
01:36:55,390 --> 01:36:54,120
to do with my I I probably should do a

2342
01:36:58,700 --> 01:36:55,400
little bit more foundational research

2343
01:37:01,070 --> 01:36:58,710
well where we're coming up for heading

2344
01:37:02,450 --> 01:37:01,080
towards two hours again here other is

2345
01:37:03,740 --> 01:37:02,460
there anything else that we that you

2346
01:37:06,650 --> 01:37:03,750
wanted to talk about that we haven't

2347
01:37:17,150 --> 01:37:06,660
touched on yet maybe next time I got a

2348
01:37:20,450 --> 01:37:17,160
bunch of stuff in your the talking and

2349
01:37:23,090 --> 01:37:20,460
it's really it's refreshing to talk to

2350
01:37:25,340 --> 01:37:23,100
you and it's really your I think there

2351
01:37:29,000 --> 01:37:25,350
were very good good and important

2352
01:37:31,850 --> 01:37:29,010
balance and I it's really enjoyable to

2353
01:37:33,980 --> 01:37:31,860
see your development in it as well in

2354
01:37:35,690 --> 01:37:33,990
different ways and I think that's very a

2355
01:37:37,580 --> 01:37:35,700
lot of it's a lot of fun

2356
01:37:40,129 --> 01:37:37,590
you know yeah thank you and

2357
01:37:42,560 --> 01:37:40,139
I really enjoy your perspective on

2358
01:37:43,939 --> 01:37:42,570
things as well and I think it's you know

2359
01:37:46,040 --> 01:37:43,949
it's we could have had like you say we

2360
01:37:48,080 --> 01:37:46,050
could have discussions like this to move

2361
01:37:51,979 --> 01:37:48,090
forward like common ground between the

2362
01:37:56,270 --> 01:37:51,989
two not not sides but perhaps like camps

2363
01:37:58,430 --> 01:37:56,280
in these these discussions so we can we

2364
01:38:01,070 --> 01:37:58,440
can all move forward and maybe we can

2365
01:38:03,979 --> 01:38:01,080
get back together again in a month or so

2366
01:38:06,879 --> 01:38:03,989
and we can we can talk more about about

2367
01:38:09,379 --> 01:38:06,889
these topics and about my book

2368
01:38:13,189 --> 01:38:09,389
definitely give me a few months all

2369
01:38:15,330 --> 01:38:13,199
right all right well thanks a lot soon